Mt sb 245

[whiskeydog]

I've gotten messages from "Helena hunters/anglers" and "Montana bowhunters association" saying to right Gov Bullock and ask him to veto the bill and a message from RMEF in support of the bill.

The bill basically allows late season hunts to be set on private land. My initial reaction is against this bill. Opinions?

 

[shoots-straight]

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=262463&highlight=late+hunts+Montana&page=6

It's been debated here. I've waffled on this thing as of late.

 

[whiskeydog]

Thanks! How did you find that thread? I searched "245" and "SB 245" before posting and for zero hits...

 

[shoots-straight]

Thanks! How did you find that thread? I searched "245" and "SB 245" before posting and for zero hits...

Search posts rather than threads. Besides I posted on that thread.

 

[RobG]

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=262463&highlight=late+hunts+Montana&page=6

It's been debated here. I've waffled on this thing as of late.

It seemed to have changed a lot from the time of that debate. I wanted to bring it up again but I've been too busy. It didn't look that bad to me in its present form but I worry about more firing line shootouts if tags are over the counter. I understand the objection to landowners being able to get late hunts without allowing access in the main season, but I don't have as big of a problem as MFW, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

Legislature meddling in FWP business is rarely, if ever, a good thing...

 

[bigskyblueman]

The illusion of too many elk based on politically driven numbers, rather than on any science , and the chipping away at FWP's authority to manage, make this a bad bill. The opportunity to hunt cows is already in place.

 

[katqanna]

I was just given a new map yesterday. This is the newer 2012 outfitter map, but it has FWP Hunt District overlay and the hunt districts are outlined in color based on their elk population objectives.

Notice how most of the heavier outfitting is coinciding with the the "over" population areas?

Private Lands Where Landowners Authorize Licensed Hunting Outfitters to Operate 2012 Elk Population Objectives Status by Hunting District

 

[RobG]

Here is the bill: http://leg.mt.gov/bills/2015/billhtml/SB0245.htm

I think the first and last sections are the relevant ones.

 

[Eric Albus]

245 creates an opportunity to harvest cow elk in over-populated units....will potentially open well over a MILLION acres of land for hunter opportunity...to me this sounds great, a chance for a cow elk is better than no elk at all.

 

[Straight Arrow]

245 creates an opportunity to harvest cow elk in over-populated units..

That is a false statement. FWP already has the authority to set such hunts; this bill does not "create" the potential for that opportunity. However, it will increase the likelihood of the occurrence of the late season hunts.

Although the bill in itself is really not a big deal for many of us, the meddling of legislators in wildlife management decisions and the mandating of certain options for political reasons are unnecessary and wasteful legislative actions. Although many of the Governor's vetoes could be construed as "political", I submit to you that the vetoes also reflect poor legislation, and in many cases, unnecessary bills that attempt to resolve issues that in reality do not exist.

 

[JLS]

That is a false statement. FWP already has the authority to set such hunts; this bill does not "create" the potential for that opportunity. However, it will increase the likelihood of the occurrence of the late season hunts.

Although the bill in itself is really not a big deal for many of us, the meddling of legislators in wildlife management decisions and the mandating of certain options for political reasons are unnecessary and wasteful legislative actions. Although many of the Governor's vetoes could be construed as "political", I submit to you that the vetoes also reflect poor legislation, and in many cases, unnecessary bills that attempt to resolve issues that in reality do not exist.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's much ado over an issue that really doesn't solve anything, but I guess allows some legislators to beat their chest over their "accomplishments".

I remember a time when late hunts via permit were common, and worked quite well in some instances. In others, the situation was abused to further increased outfitting during the regular season. Late hunts are not the savior, nor are they the devil they are sometimes portrayed to be.

 

[billy banger]

Better Learn What the Public Trust Doctrine Actually Says

Legislature meddling in FWP business is rarely, if ever, a good thing...

I have heard the MWF, MSA, MBA, PLWA... spouting that they believe in and follow the Public Trust Doctrine (PTD) and that the Legislature has no business meddling in FWP business or setting of FWP policy. But, if you all really understood the Public Trust Doctrine you'd know that the Legislature are the Trustees of the people's wildlife under the PTD.

The following was a determination The Wildlife Society made in 2011.
Elected and appointed officials, especially in the legislative branch, have policy-level decision-making authority that makes them trustees of the people’s wildlife under the PTD. In contrast, career professionals working for state wildlife agencies (SWA’s) have ministerial duties as trust managers. The differences between the roles of trustees and trust managers are important. By focusing on their role as trust managers, while supporting and respecting the role of elected and appointed officials as trustees, SWA professionals can more effectively advance application of the PTD. :hump:

 

[shoots-straight]

It's too bad you don't understand the difference in Policy making, and legislative wildlife management.

We (MSA) understand that the legislature makes policy and work with them on such tasks. We don't condone the use of the legislature to be used as a policy maker that benefits certain special interest groups through that legislation.

 

[shoots-straight]

BTW, 245 was vetoed today.

 

[BuzzH]

bill banger,

Better learn that the word rarely and never have a couple different meanings....obviously.

Legislation and legislatures have recently been in the business of trumping and running static on issues that should be dealt with via regulation through the Commission.

That's the problem, the Legislature has forgotten there is a Commission...and those elected officials that are honest with themselves, and their jobs, will admit it.

You honestly think, a legislature that introduces 100+wildlife related bills per session in Montana, is the work of a respectful Trustee of public resources (wildlife, tax dollars, etc.)?

WOW!