MT Late Season Bulls?

[EYJONAS!]

My buddy and his son drew 410 bull tags and they got a chance to hunt them August 15. They didn't kill any bulls but certainly took the FWP up on the offer. Nothing like driving around in those pivots and glassing bulls cooling off as the pivot is spraying them.......

 

[MTGomer]

If you have Facebook, you can hear it right from the R4 bio that there are concerns of ‘Too many bull elk’

I know that is always my biggest fear when applying for coveted, trophy tags. That I might get there and find too many of what I’m looking for....

 

[BuzzH]

I may not be the dumbest sob but I got to ask a few questions, then maybe I will be.
If we stop this bull shooting what happens? We are back right where we were last year?

Is it a high crime to have some extra bulls around for the following year? Apparently the MFWP seems to think so, better kill them all this year, so there's none left next year. There is NO biological need to kill bulls in the breaks in January...no justification.

If we stop the shoulder seasons where will we be? We are back right where we were a few years ago?

The MFWP is claiming that the shoulder seasons are not working or having very little success in controlling elk. There may have been a slight bump in killing off some accessible elk on a few places. Guess what, piss pounding elk on those places have now shifted the elk to the next ranch over that doesn't allow access. You gained nothing, solved one ranchers problem and created one on the next place over.

If we cut the season by 50% where will we be? We are still sitting on the mountain glassing elk on the flats, while the pay to play crowd chases them with trucks?

You'll be where Wyoming is with elk management. We just don't have the harboring problems in general areas like Montana does. WHY? Because we don't pound on elk from Aug. 15-February 15. Our general "opportunity" management has bull to cow ratio's of 18-25 bulls per 100 cows post harvest. If a general unit drops below that threshold the GF either shortens the season and/or eliminates spike bull from the harvest. Our general season archery hunt is the month of September, then 2 weeks of no hunting, then 10-20 days of general rifle, depending on the area. That management keeps elk on National Forest, gives them a chance to be elk and do elk stuff rather than get pushed onto private.

There is a deep rooted problem in Montana that the average elk hunter thinks they need 11+ weeks to kill an elk. Yeah, you do when your bull to cow ratio's are total dog crap, when they never get a break from Aug.-Feb., and you don't manage for even an adequate bull to cow ratio. It doesn't help that they change NOTHING when elk are in the tank, still 11 weeks of general season pounding.

For reference: I hunted elk in Wyoming for myself 3 times this fall. General tag and 2 cow/calf tags. Elk number 1 I left my house at noon, had an elk killed by 6 PM. Elk number 2 left my house at 5 AM, had an elk killed by 8:30 AM. Elk 3 left my house at 5:30 AM and had an elk killed and in game bags by 10:30 AM...all on public land. I don't think I had 10 hours of total hunting time in to kill 3 elk. Its a very rare day when I don't have the opportunity to kill a legal elk while hunting public land.

You think that happens in Montana on public land? I hunted deer for about 10 days total in Montana this fall, where my family and I have shot around 50 elk over the years, and saw ONE elk.

Point being, if you have accessible elk in solid numbers on public land, you don't need 11-26 weeks to kill an elk. I don't really care much to just take my rifle/bow for a hike for 11 weeks. I don't need to pack a rifle or elk tag to just go on a hike, which is exactly what nearly 90% of elk hunters are doing when they are elk "hunting" in Montana. Compare that to only about 55-60% of those hunting elk in Wyoming.

I am only familiar with the area that I am familiar with, but I don't see the odds of getting those elk back up on the mountain as being any better than getting the antelope to go up there to live.
If I was going to demand change I am not sure what to ask for, other than to declare loudly that elk lives matter.

Wrong. Elk respond to pressure and a lack-there-of. If you give them time to use public land they will. If you pound on them non-stop, they will not use and stay on public (See example above).

Montana hunters have a phobia of change...so your philosophy with this post will net no change and only continue to degrade public land elk hunting. Not picking on you at all, you are in the clear majority of thought process with the average MT elk hunter. Status quo is only going to keep things on the downward slide...just a fact.

 

[BuzzH]

If you have Facebook, you can hear it right from the R4 bio that there are concerns of ‘Too many bull elk’

I know that is always my biggest fear when applying for coveted, trophy tags. That I might get there and find too many of what I’m looking for....

View attachment 127689

The MFWP would shit bricks if they saw some of the bull to cow ratio's and classification data for Wyoming special elk management...they would call it unattainable and impossible.

 

[Art Vandeley]

Shot January 15th

 

[MTGomer]

The ole hydra-bed, haystack, breaks bull.
Hell of an opportunity.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

FWP makes me want to hunt there less and less each year.

Would Idaho like my $$?

 

[mtmuley]

What;

Shot January 15th


View attachment 127696

Not exactly how I would want a Breaks bull hunt to go, but whatever. mtmuley

 

[----]

The fact is that our wildlife is being grossly mismanaged by the agency we pay to manage them.

The commission needs to know that they've gone too far with this.

Let them know by the 13th if you disagree with these hunts and the accompanying regulation changes that were never put out for public comment-

[email protected]

 

[timmy]

Where do you even start to make changes. I’ve made plenty of public comments and they fall on deaf ears. There is no way to hold mtfwp accountable. They do what they want.

 

[mtmuley]

Me too. mtmuley

 

[----]

Sorry, didn't realize we were measuring. I concede.

Sorry, I updated my post.

 

[EYJONAS!]

The ole hydra-bed, haystack, breaks bull.
Hell of an opportunity.

Don't knock it till you try it

 

[shoots-straight]

My curiosity in this whole thing with the MTFWP ruining elk hunting...has always been how long are Montana Sportsmen going to allow this shit to continue?

I mean there has to be some tipping point, 6 month seasons, hunting bulls in the breaks until February, 3 elk per tag purchaser next year.

I guess its like a good friend of mine told me when this crap started, "I guess until it gets so bad that the even the dumbest SOB in Montana recognizes there's a problem with elk Management, nothing will happen".

We have to be close to finding that guy...

Once the breaks get applied it will certainly be to late.

 

[MTHunter1321]

Happen to have a photo of it?

I do not. A client showed me on Facebook and while I know who it is who shot it, I can’t seem to find it. I will say it might be the bull that Art posted the picture of above though

 

[IEATELK]

Haha i bet point creep will be even worse now on these LE. Id looooove a chance a 7x7 hydra bed bull!!!!!!!!

 

[brockel]

Nothing surprises me anymore with this state

 

[SAJ-99]

And then you have the loud landowners that want every elk shot on sight (hopefully it isnt quite that bad)

And those are the ones that are selling access to outfitters. They want them from opening day until the the end of the season ( while collecting $10ks), and then they want them gone. The hypocrisy requires hip waders at the very least.

 

[MTGomer]

What exactly authorizes the killing of bulls in 417 this late? Certainly there has to be more than ‘Sonja said its okay’.
Anybody know?

 

[BuzzH]

What exactly authorizes the killing of bulls in 417 this late? Certainly there has to be more than ‘Sonja said its okay’.
Anybody know?

Legit question...I know in the past, the MFWP has somehow authorized season extensions when they felt like not enough elk were killed in the previous 11 weeks. Not sure under what parameters or authority they operate that on. Meaning is it a biologists decision, FWP leadership decision, or does it have to be authorized by the commission?