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Mt goat release NV East Humboldt Range

Gr8bawana

Gr8bawana

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In a monumental effort to support herd health and diversity, NDOW introduced 16 mountain goats to the East Humboldt Range in November 2024. Witness the incredible journey and the teamwork behind this conservation success. (Photo credit: Miranda Crawford)

Maybe I'll be able to draw a goat tag before I die of old age. 👴 Sitting on 19 bonus points now.

Watch the video


 
It's great to see an iconic species supplemented and re-introduced into locations in Nevada for everyone to enjoy and possibly someday hunt!

Unfortunately, in states like Colorado and Washington goats are often considered a nuisance and invasive non-native wildlife species. Often culled in areas where they tend to spread. There are vast areas in many Western states where mtn goats could prosper but are prevented from living.

Bighorn and mtn goats have lived together in some of these areas for decades (Mtn Evans/Bluesky in Colo as a prime example). It is controversial whether in fact they are native or non-native in some of these regions and if in fact, goats and sheep actually compete with each other on the same landscapes.

Brook, rainbow, and brown trout as well as pheasants, huns, chuker, and other non-native species are allowed to flourish, but mtn goats are not? I think it's great that Nevada is doing their best to allow these species to prosper. This is probably weird coming from someone that is an invasive weed manager!
 
jimss said:
Bighorn and mtn goats have lived together in some of these areas for decades (Mtn Evans/Bluesky in Colo as a prime example). It is controversial whether in fact they are native or non-native in some of these regions and if in fact, goats and sheep actually compete with each other on the same landscapes.
Click to expand...

BuzzH said:
Wyoming begs to differ.

www.wyomingwildsheep.org

In the Rockies, goats beat bighorn sheep - Wyoming Wild Sheep Foundation

A wildlife researcher from Colorado State University, found that mountain goats displace bighorn sheep 95% of the time when there's conflict — and changing conditions continue to force them into conflict more frequently.
www.wyomingwildsheep.org www.wyomingwildsheep.org
Click to expand...


Buzz beat me to the punch, the goats on Mt. Evans definitely dominate and displace the sheep, I've seen it. If there's habitat for the goats to live somewhere, then fine, but not when it comes at a cost to our struggling bighorn herds.
 
Its a bunch of bullcrap using the salt-lick aggression approach to exemplify the idea that goats are aggressive and displacing sheep.

Obviously the salt lick deal may happen from time to time but that is the one and only significant case there is for goats being aggressive that I’m aware of.

I admit that goats are certainly aggressive around salt licks. It makes total sense that a researcher spending months watching salt lick interactions will likely observe a few conflicts. Using bedding areas as an excuse is bullcrap!

Anyone that spends any length of time watching goats and sheep in areas where they coexist outside of salt licks are aware goats and sheep hardly interact. In fact, most of the time they are in separate locations and totally avoid each other.

Take a look at the above article and notice there is no mention of diets of sheep and goats at different times of the year and pinpointing exactly which habitats and browse or grazing species in their diets that conflict. I haven’t seen any of this in the literature.

There is no mention of conflicting coexistence during the critical time of year on winter and early spring ranges. On mtn evans/bluesky and the Georgetown areas, 99% of the sheep and goats winter in totally separate locations. Again, where is the literature supporting conflict on critical winter ranges?

So is there proof that lamb survival is decreased in locations where sheep and goats coexist? From my understanding, there has been no proof.

It’s a bunch of frick’n hogwash unless proven otherwise.

Making aggressive mtn goat culling decisions based off 1 or 2 salt lick conflicts over extended periods of time in an entire sheep/goat range is ludicrous!

Maybe I’m missing something?
 
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I don’t know if goats truly displace sheep or not but I’m okay with people continuing to think they do.

Myself and a couple friends got a new goat unit opened a few years ago in Montana. We provided the bio with goat locations and classification data for a few years and always asked, why are we seeing 20-40 non native goats that we can’t hunt, while on sheep hunts where we can barely find a sheep.

He proposed the season, it was approved and now goats are being hunted.

Want to start a new sheep unit where there are known sheep herds?
Get ready for surveys, collar studies, feet dragging, apprehension etc
 
jimss said:
Its a bunch of bullcrap using the salt-lick aggression approach to exemplify the idea that goats are aggressive and displacing sheep.

Obviously the salt lick deal may happen from time to time but that is the one and only significant case there is for goats being aggressive that I’m aware of.

I admit that goats are certainly aggressive around salt licks. It makes total sense that a researcher spending months watching salt lick interactions will likely observe a few conflicts. Using bedding areas as an excuse is bullcrap!

Anyone that spends any length of time watching goats and sheep in areas where they coexist outside of salt licks are aware goats and sheep hardly interact. In fact, most of the time they are in separate locations and totally avoid each other.

Take a look at the above article and notice there is no mention of diets of sheep and goats at different times of the year and pinpointing exactly which habitats and browse or grazing species in their diets that conflict. I haven’t seen any of this in the literature.

There is no mention of conflicting coexistence during the critical time of year on winter and early spring ranges. On mtn evans/bluesky and the Georgetown areas, 99% of the sheep and goats winter in totally separate locations. Again, where is the literature supporting conflict on critical winter ranges?

So is there proof that lamb survival is decreased in locations where sheep and goats coexist? From my understanding, there has been no proof.

It’s a bunch of frick’n hogwash unless proven otherwise.

Making aggressive mtn goat culling decisions based off 1 or 2 salt lick conflicts over extended periods of time in an entire sheep/goat range is ludicrous!

Maybe I’m missing something?
Click to expand...
You are missing something.

Everything must be removed to make room for the curly horned "Gods" of the wildlife world.

Mountain goats and sheep have lived in the same mountain ranges for thousands of years, but now for some reason it's a huge problem.
 
Here in Colorado the CPW has strict guidelines and borders on where goats are allowed. If goats wander outside prescribed goat units, they are culled. Generally, the borders are where sheep and goats coexist plus the Indian Peaks, RMNP., and a few other areas. Mt Bluesky and a few other scattered goat units have both sheep and goat populations that have coexisted fine for several decades.

The mtn goat population here in Colorado steadily increased until the CPW increased the number of hunting seasons and tags issued. There are now 4 rifle seasons in several units. It got to the point that goat numbers were increasing so much that even with multiple seasons, the CPW started issuing nanny only tags to keep the populations in check. In recent years, goat quotas have remained high and goat populations are relatively stable.

Going back to goats and mineral licks.
If you've spent time around goats, you are fully aware of their behavior around mineral licks and salt. If you pee near goats in certain areas, you better watch your back because goats will come running!

When a goat herd first arrives at a lick, dominate nannies are often aggressive towards other nannies and kids. Plain and simple, mtn goat kids have never been impacted by this and kid numbers have never declined due to aggressive activity around mineral licks. Those that are vocal about goats displacing sheep and causing conflict at mineral licks have never publicized that goats are similarly aggressive towards other goats. My guess is that there is more aggressive goat to goat interactions in a day than between goats and sheep...and goats are doing just fine!

Sheep often avoid conflict when goats are on mineral licks and have plenty of opportunity later when goats have left the area. It is totally absurd to say that goats displace sheep from infrequent aggressive interactions at mineral licks. There generally are a few licks over thousands of acres of goat/sheep habitat on the landscape. There is a lot more involved with wild sheep than goat aggression around mineral licks.

I would really like to see the science behind some of the current culling operations across the West! From my understanding, if goat populations increase to the point where they are impacting critical high alpine habitat, goat numbers should be thinned just like any other big game species. That's why God created rifles, bullets, and goat tags!
 
Irrelevant said:
it's pretty odd that mt goats are thriving as non-natives, while populations are cratering in their native haunts.
WA Cascade range is prime native mt goat habitat.
1961 - >10,000 goats
2012 - 3,200 goats
2015 - 1,537 goats
2024 - as few 900
Click to expand...
Here's an interesting article about shrinking BC native goat populations. Alberta also had a large population years ago that declined. Hard animal to study, hope we can find some conclusive answers.

www.sciencenews.org

Culturally important mountain goats may be disappearing from Indigenous land in Canada

As fewer mountain goats are spotted along British Columbia’s central coast, First Nations people team up with biologists to assess the population.
www.sciencenews.org www.sciencenews.org
 
It sounds like a lot of unknowns in BC. Ther are a number of articles about declining dall sheep populations in Alaska. I’m not sure if similar things are occuring with goats in BC and elsewhere?

In some regions in Alaska, part of the blame is golden eagles and also warm temps raising the level of dense shrub species to higher elevations. Shrubs at higher elevations shrink.the quality and available habitat in the winter and even summer months. They also mention more shrubs increase the likelihood of predation

Here is a.short artcle

Wild Sheep Foundation

www.wildsheepfoundation.org www.wildsheepfoundation.org
 
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jimss said:
It sounds like a lot of unknowns in BC. Ther are a number of articles about declining dall sheep populations in Alaska. I’m not sure if similar things are occuring with goats in BC and elsewhere?

In some regions in Alaska, part of the blame is golden eagles and also warm temps raising the level of dense shrub species to higher elevations. Shrubs at higher elevations shrink.the quality and available habitat in the winter and even summer months. They also mention more shrubs increase the likelihood of predation

Here is a.short artcle

Wild Sheep Foundation

www.wildsheepfoundation.org www.wildsheepfoundation.org
Click to expand...
Listening to biologist speak at a number of sheep seminars over the years, the line I hear most often is, "the more we learn, the less we know".

Same goes for Mountain Goats.
 
Bighornram, do they have any collars on goats? That seems like a starting point.
 
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