MT - Changes in Hunting Regs/Units/Seasons coming this month

[MTHunter1321]

I guess it all depends on what hunting is all about for you. Is it about spending time with family and friends doing something you love, or about trying to create areas with bigger elk?
I'll give you a personal example of why I hate these hunt here and only here regulations. I live in Region 1 in Montana, had a son in Region 2, and another in Region 3. We hunting together sometimes at a location that best suited everyone. The rest of the season I hunting in Region 1 with friends. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to hunt with my sons, and that it wasn't made difficult by limiting where we could hunt.

Anyone who thinks that putting stipulations that you can hunt here and only here will create a situation where the elk are bigger, and there chances of killing one are higher, is fooling themselves. People quote the success of the mule deer regs and how units like 270 now have big mule deer. What are the draw odds for 270? Close to zero I think. And from what I hear, finding a big buck on public land is getting tough there too.

Are the units you’re hunting a general tag area? The way I see it, only hunting one unit applies to if it’s a permit area. If I draw an elk permit than I’m committing to only hunting elk in that area, which I absolutely thinks makes sense. If you don’t put in for or draw a permit, you’re free to hunt general areas and are not committed to just one.

I’m willing to bet people who draw an elkhorns or breaks permit aren’t hunting general areas that season. I think it makes perfect sense to stipulate that if you want to hunt a permit area then you’re going to have to commit to hunting that area only.

 

[TheTone]

I guess it all depends on what hunting is all about for you. Is it about spending time with family and friends doing something you love, or about trying to create areas with bigger elk?
I'll give you a personal example of why I hate these hunt here and only here regulations. I live in Region 1 in Montana, had a son in Region 2, and another in Region 3. We hunting together sometimes at a location that best suited everyone. The rest of the season I hunting in Region 1 with friends. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to hunt with my sons, and that it wasn't made difficult by limiting where we could hunt.

Anyone who thinks that putting stipulations that you can hunt here and only here will create a situation where the elk are bigger, and there chances of killing one are higher, is fooling themselves. People quote the success of the mule deer regs and how units like 270 now have big mule deer. What are the draw odds for 270? Close to zero I think. And from what I hear, finding a big buck on public land is getting tough there too.

I can get that. I’ve hunted elk with my dad maybe 5 or so days total in the last 15 years; mainly due to the facts that he rifle hunts and I archery hunt and I’ve moved a couple times into different parts of the state. Again does something have to give for montana elk? From some people I fully trust is seems like it’s declining in rapid fashion on public land

I truly miss “hunting camp” with family and friends but for me it’s been more due to my career and method choices than season regulations

 

[Gerald Martin]

I think you posted some photos this year hunting with your sons. They do grow up. What if they move to another part of the state? Do you not want to ever hunt with them anymore, or force one party or the other to travel a long distance? And not just sons and relatives, any friends you ever want to hunt with, would have to totally commit to hunting one area.

I’m not settled on one particular method or another to try and ease hunting pressure on public land. But, something has to change. The current situation is not compatible with healthy deer and elk herds and is going to get worse as resident hunter numbers continue to grow.

What is the value of “opportunity “ to hunt lots of units if you can’t find the game you seek or it’s poor quality in those areas?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Read this and imagine the violins playing in the background..

Why is it anytime the discussion of any semblance of "management" comes up, there's always those guys who stand up and cry about "You trophy hunters just want big bulls and bucks and we just don't hunt for those reasons."

Gosh, hate to disrupt your family time and life-long traditions of spending quality time with your children, grandad, cousins and their friends where you've always just been able to go out whenever you wanted, and could kill any buck mule deer and bull elk nearly state-wide with a license that cost less than a 6 pack of beer. How can you possibly survive and retain your family bonds if your kids move a couple hours away?

For Christ's sake, it ain't 1980 anymore. Unfortunately going hunting is going to take some planning. Deal with it or find a different hobby. There will always be a shoulder hunt, or some doe whitetails for you to kill with your family, somewhere convenient for you so you don't lose that bond that will disappear with any form of putting the resource before your convenience. These people will never be satisfied unless they're allowed to kill every last 2-year old animal with antlers, year-round. Plan a coyote hunting trip with your clan, maybe prairie dogs or bunnies.

 

[brockel]

Sounds like a perfect time to take up spring bear hunting. Nice weather, lots of animals out and about, and you can still take your rifle for a walk with your family just like you would in the fall. Basically what Montana public land hunting is going to become is a walk with your rifle

 

[tjones]

Greenhorn hits the nail on the head and it’s the exact reason MT hunting will continue to slide right to rock bottom.

Hunters are their own worst enemy.

 

[tjones]

People quote the success of the mule deer regs and how units like 270 now have big mule deer. What are the draw odds for 270? Close to zero I think. And from what I hear, finding a big buck on public land is getting tough there too.

Comparing restricting hunters with LE/unlimited elk permits to a extremely limited mule deer unit is apples and carrots.

 

[Irishman]

Are the units you’re hunting a general tag area? The way I see it, only hunting one unit applies to if it’s a permit area. If I draw an elk permit than I’m committing to only hunting elk in that area, which I absolutely thinks makes sense. If you don’t put in for or draw a permit, you’re free to hunt general areas and are not committed to just one.

I’m willing to bet people who draw an elkhorns or breaks permit aren’t hunting general areas that season. I think it makes perfect sense to stipulate that if you want to hunt a permit area then you’re going to have to commit to hunting that area only.

I’m not settled on one particular method or another to try and ease hunting pressure on public land. But, something has to change. The current situation is not compatible with healthy deer and elk herds and is going to get worse as resident hunter numbers continue to grow.

What is the value of “opportunity “ to hunt lots of units if you can’t find the game you seek or it’s poor quality in those areas?

Your suggestion of limiting hunting to one unit, or one region, does nothing to limit overall pressure. If I hunt 10 days in region 1, and you hunt 10 days in region 3, versus us both hunting 5 days in each, how does that limit pressure? In the end its about number of people hunting, versus total land available to hunt on. More people have moved to the state, and from what I can see, they tend to be more of the hunting type, versus the tree hugging type. Also, the amount of land open to hunting is shrinking, bought up by people who either don't agree with hunting, or want to keep it as their own private hunting ranch.

If you want opportunities for big elk, low hunting pressure, and be able to do it each year, then you need to buy a DeLorean and travel back to 1970. Oh and don't forget to bring your 2021 archery gear with you.

 

[JLS]

Maybe it’s time to manage deer and elk hunting in such a way you don’t “get it all”. By getting it all, you aren’t getting much any more.

Are you still holding on to the delusion that hunters disperse themselves better than anything? How’d that work for mule deer hunting on the Rocky Mountain Front in the 2006-present period? How about archery hunting in the Gravellies from the same time frame?

 

[Irishman]

Comparing restricting hunters with LE/unlimited elk permits to a extremely limited mule deer unit is apples and carrots.

I'm comparing a permit that says you can bowhunt elk in unit 411 and no where else in the state, with a permit that says you can hunt a mule deer in unit 270 and no where else in the state. Apples and carrots? Elk and deer.

 

[rogerthat]

Your suggestion of limiting hunting to one unit, or one region, does nothing to limit overall pressure. If I hunt 10 days in region 1, and you hunt 10 days in region 3, versus us both hunting 5 days in each, how does that limit pressure? In the end its about number of people hunting, versus total land available to hunt on. More people have moved to the state, and from what I can see, they tend to be more of the hunting type, versus the tree hugging type. Also, the amount of land open to hunting is shrinking, bought up by people who either don't agree with hunting, or want to keep it as their own private hunting ranch.

If you want opportunities for big elk, low hunting pressure, and be able to do it each year, then you need to buy a DeLorean and travel back to 1970. Oh and don't forget to bring your 2021 archery gear with you.

What’s funny about your opinion is that you said it yourself you mostly hunt general units. You don’t have much of any experience in the 900 units. Believe it or not you can still go hunt with your kids you just might not have a tag in your pocket. That’s okay. You could be the caller or whatever. It won’t wreck your experience. It’s okay to see a critter you can’t kill cause you don’t have a tag. I know that’s hard for you since that hasn’t been the case in Montana for the last 40 years but hate to tell you, look around a little. Montana is changing…fast

 

[tjones]

I'm comparing a permit that says you can bowhunt elk in unit 411 and no where else in the state, with a permit that says you can hunt a mule deer in unit 270 and no where else in the state. Apples and carrots? Elk and deer.

There is only 40 MD 270 permits

 

[rogerthat]

Your suggestion of limiting hunting to one unit, or one region, does nothing to limit overall pressure. If I hunt 10 days in region 1, and you hunt 10 days in region 3, versus us both hunting 5 days in each, how does that limit pressure? In the end its about number of people hunting, versus total land available to hunt on. More people have moved to the state, and from what I can see, they tend to be more of the hunting type, versus the tree hugging type. Also, the amount of land open to hunting is shrinking, bought up by people who either don't agree with hunting, or want to keep it as their own private hunting ranch.

If you want opportunities for big elk, low hunting pressure, and be able to do it each year, then you need to buy a DeLorean and travel back to 1970. Oh and don't forget to bring your 2021 archery gear with you.

One other thing, this has nothing to do with hunting big elk. Quality of the hunt matters and in fact can negatively affect harvest stats. Maybe you have perfected killing bulls at a high speed gallop with your bow on their way to private. If so, let’s hear about it….cause you maybe really are the ol badass you think you are

 

[JLS]

What’s funny is i don’t see too many ID and WY guys sitting home because they can’t hunt. But, they do have to make choices.

 

[rogerthat]

What’s funny is i don’t see too many ID and WY guys sitting home because they can’t hunt. But, they do have to make choices.

+1

 

[Lawnboy]

Has there ever been a time when they've come forth with these regulations and then actually changed them based on hunters comments? Serious question btw.

I feel like we made ground a few weeks ago but once they put pen to paper we are screwed. Maybe I'm wrong. ??

 

[YoungGun]

I'm comparing a permit that says you can bowhunt elk in unit 411 and no where else in the state, with a permit that says you can hunt a mule deer in unit 270 and no where else in the state. Apples and carrots? Elk and deer.

The concern that I think you may have missed is if/when these permit hunts go "unlimited" or simply have a large number of tags, like 900. Now every Dick and Jane can put that as their second choice, draw it, and go hunt there as well as the General Units. That DOES increase pressure on those units. If you held draw hunters, unlimited tags or otherwise, to their unit and their unit only, it would dramatically cut down on this practice and allow more precise management of the hunt districts as a whole.

Honest question- Do you feel like your opportunity to hunt deer in Montana is burdened by holding limited entry tag holders to their unit? Does it ACTUALLY decrease the amount of deer hunting you do? Markedly increase your drive time to areas you can hunt? Decrease the amount of hunting done with family? Because that is the impact of doing the same with elk.

If you really think your 11 weeks of general season hunting plus shoulder hunts and spring seasons just isn't enough opportunity for you, then I really don't have an answer for you.

 

[Irishman]

One other thing, this has nothing to do with hunting big elk. Quality of the hunt matters and in fact can negatively affect harvest stats. Maybe you have perfected killing bulls at a high speed gallop with your bow on their way to private. If so, let’s hear about it….cause you maybe really are the ol badass you think you are

So what is the goal of saying that if you draw a permit for one unit, you can't hunt general units, versus you can also hunt general units?

You do jump to a lot of conclusions "galloping on to private". I'll bet that the last elk I killed never came within 30 miles of private land in its life. Badass? Not at all. I needed one of my sons to help pack it out. In fact I have always gotten help, because I'm such a weakling. I am getting old though and have wasted enough of my remaining life on this subject.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Has there ever been a time when they've come forth with these regulations and then actually changed them based on hunters comments? Serious question btw.

I feel like we made ground a few weeks ago but once they put pen to paper we are screwed. Maybe I'm wrong. ??

Hank "started the conversation" and then repackaged the doo doo into a different paper bag to "solve problems". I am in the process of making my comments as I type. I quote from FWP's web page.

"Earlier this fall, Fish, Wildlife & Parks biologists offered science-based regulations proposals that combine some hunting districts, reduce some license and permit types, and eliminate hunting district portions. FWP staff held informational meetings around the state, and the public was invited to submit comments on those initial proposals. FWP adjusted the proposals based on public comment and presented them to the commission."

There are so many "science based" proposals given out this year there is zero chance this commission has any idea of what the probable ramifications will be.

Montana elk management for 22/23 is the MT GOP's and FWP leadership's equivilent of Nancy Pelosi's "pass it to see what's in it."

 

[Gerald Martin]

Dear FWP commission and Director Worsech. I have been reviewing the elk/deer proposals and have made a video going into comprehensive detail about each proposal. Thank-you for your consideration...