MOVI in Hell's Canyon Big Horns

[44hunter45]

Hells Canyon Bighorn Sheep Test Positive for Lethal Bacteria

YAKIMA – The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and its management partners detected pneumonia in the Northern Hells Canyon bighorn sheep population in December 2023. The disease is

www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com

 

[Mica Man]

Well....crap.

 

[Matthew57]

That sucks.

 

[BAKPAKR]

My brother found a dead ewe on the Idaho side a couple of weeks ago. He had heard that several had been found dead, including a 180 class ram.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Weird how they failed to mention where they ovi came from.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Looks at the price of auction tags.
"Are we sure there isn't enough money to create a vaccine?"

 

[Oak]

Looks at the price of auction tags.
"Are we sure there isn't enough money to create a vaccine?"

Millions of dollars have been spent to research the efficacy of developing a vaccine. Respiratory disease in wild sheep is a polymicrobial, multifactorial disease that is not going to be solved with a vaccine.

 

[44hunter45]

I don't think we have the will for the Canadian approach of capture, test, euthanize if positive.

 

[BigHornRam]

I don't think we have the will for the Canadian approach of capture, test, euthanize if positive.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Millions of dollars have been spent to research the efficacy of developing a vaccine. Respiratory disease in wild sheep is a polymicrobial, multifactorial disease that is not going to be solved with a vaccine.

Id definitely defer to you on where the science is in regards to sheep. However for humans there are many polymicrobial and multifaceted disease that cause pneumonia and have effective vaccines to the predisposing disease. Being polymicrobial or multifaceted does not mean a vaccine wouldn't help or even control.
It may seem unlikely at the current understanding. But money and drive has brought a lot of vaccines to market that were once thought unrealistic.
Here is a partial list of agents that can cause polymicrobial infections in humans. Many of them have vaccines or combinations of vaccines that prevent their infection thus preventing polymicrobial multifactorial pneumonia.

Causal agents	Disease
Synergistic polymicrobial infections
Human metapneumovirus with coronavirus or respiratory syncytial virus	SARS, bronchiolitis2, 3, 4
Measles and Mycobacterium tuberculosis and Staphylococcus aureus	Measles5
Epstein-Barr virus and retrovirus	Multiple sclerosis9
HTLV-I, HTLV-II, and/or HIV-1, HIV-2	AIDS30
HTLV-I and HTLV-II	Respiratory and urinary tract infections7
HIV and M tuberculosis	AIDS8
HBV or HCV and HIV-1	AIDS31
HIV and enteric viruses, Acinetobacter radioresistens, M tuberculosis, Ehrlichia chaffeensis, Candida albicans, Histoplasma capsulatum, Cryptosporidium parvum, Trichomonas vaginalis, and others	AIDS
Lyme disease with babesiosis or ehrlichiosis	Lyme disease
Stenotrophomonas maltophilia and Aspergillus fumigatus	Corneal infection
Infections predisposing to polymicrobial disease
Influenza viruses, parainfluenza viruses, respiratory syncytial viruses, adenoviruses, measles viruses, rhinoviruses, and coronaviruses with Streptococcus pneumoniae, Strep pyogenes, Haemophilus influenzae, Staph aureus, Neisseria meningitidis, M tuberculosis, or Bordetella pertussis	Respiratory disease10
Coronavirus and Escherichia coli	SARS
Respiratory tract viruses and bacterial infections	Otitis media11, 12
Varicella-zoster virus and Strep pyogenes	Invasive group A streptococcal disease32
Additive polymicrobial infections
Aerobic and anaerobic gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria and Candida spp	Periodontal disease33
Prevotella-like bacteria	Caries
B pertussis, Strep pneumoniae, Staph aureus, H influenzae	Pertussis34
Nocardia asteroides and Cryptococcus neoformans	Lung abscesses
Herpes zoster and tuberculosis	Tuberculosis
Pseudomonas aeruginosa, S maltophilia, Prevotella oris, Fusobacterium gonidoformans, Bacteroides fragilis, Leptotrichia-like spp, Abiotrophia defecta, Citrobacter murliniae, Lautropia mirabilis, and Sarcina ventriculi	Cystic fibrosis25
Aerobic and anaerobic gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria	Peritonitis13
HBV, HCV, and HDV	Hepatitis14, 15
HCV and HIV	Hepatitis14, 15
Norwalk-like virus and Aeromonas sobria or E coli	Gastroenteritis
Schistosoma haematobium and S mansoni	Intestinal schistosomiasis
Combinations of Corynebacterium urealyticum, Gardnerella vaginalis, Anaerococcus lactolyticus, Bact vulgatus, Dialister invisus, Fusobacterium nucleatum, Lactobacillus iners, Leptotrichia amnionii, P buccalis, P ruminicola, Rahnella aquatilis, and Strep intermedius	Urinary tract infection
Staphylcoccus spp, Streptococcus spp, and HACEK group	Endocarditis

 

[mevertsen]

I don't think we have the will for the Canadian approach of capture, test, euthanize if positive.

We have in 066 in NV.

 

[Oak]

I don't think we have the will for the Canadian approach of capture, test, euthanize if positive.

It has been done in Hells Canyon.

 

[littlebighorn]

Twenty years ago, when I hunted my first sheep, I was sure that by now we would have found a cure for Movi.
Millions of dollars and tons of research later, Movi still regularly raises it's ugly head. We could all be hunting sheep if we could find a cure.
Sad deal for sure.

 

[idelkslayer]

Just a few years ago they declared the Idaho portion of Hells Canyon to be M. Ovi free.

From the IDFG Sheep Management plan:

"In 2013, IDFG research as part of the Hells Canyon Initiative (HCI) began working on test-and-remove (see Health section) in Asotin Creek, WA. The idea behind test-and-remove was the disease (Movi) was maintained in a population in a few individuals (chronic carriers) that never cleared the disease but continually infected other population members, particularly lambs. Appearing to have been successful in Asotin Creek, the same technique was used in Hells Canyon in Idaho starting in 2017. By 2019 it was likely that sheep in the Idaho portion of Hells Canyon were Movi-free, but the captures to confirm it were not completed until 2020. Prior to clearing Movi in the Idaho portion of Hells Canyon, fall lamb-ewe ratios were routinely in the low teens and more than tripled post-Movi."

 

[rogerthat]

So we can’t blame this outbreak on the range maggots and their velcro chapped owners?

 

[Oak]

So we can’t blame this outbreak on the range maggots and their velcro chapped owners?

What makes you say that?

 

[44hunter45]

It has been done in Hells Canyon.

I saw that. @BigHornRam corrected me.

As sad as it is to think about, I think it's the only path forward at the moment.

I'm not a scientist, but I'm amazed that in the 21st century, bacterium are still dangerous. Even to us.

 

[rogerthat]

What makes you say that?

It was a question. Reading the comments on this thread led me to believe(maybe incorrectly) that the movi may have already been in the herd from the past.

 

[CT_SD]

Id definitely defer to you on where the science is in regards to sheep. However for humans there are many polymicrobial and multifaceted disease that cause pneumonia and have effective vaccines to the predisposing disease. Being polymicrobial or multifaceted does not mean a vaccine wouldn't help or even control.
It may seem unlikely at the current understanding. But money and drive has brought a lot of vaccines to market that were once thought unrealistic.
Here is a partial list of agents that can cause polymicrobial infections in humans. Many of them have vaccines or combinations of vaccines that prevent their infection thus preventing polymicrobial multifactorial pneumonia.

Causal agents	Disease
Synergistic polymicrobial infections
Human metapneumovirus with coronavirus or respiratory syncytial virus	SARS, bronchiolitis2, 3, 4
Measles and Mycobacterium tuberculosis and Staphylococcus aureus	Measles5
Epstein-Barr virus and retrovirus	Multiple sclerosis9
HTLV-I, HTLV-II, and/or HIV-1, HIV-2	AIDS30
HTLV-I and HTLV-II	Respiratory and urinary tract infections7
HIV and M tuberculosis	AIDS8
HBV or HCV and HIV-1	AIDS31
HIV and enteric viruses, Acinetobacter radioresistens, M tuberculosis, Ehrlichia chaffeensis, Candida albicans, Histoplasma capsulatum, Cryptosporidium parvum, Trichomonas vaginalis, and others	AIDS
Lyme disease with babesiosis or ehrlichiosis	Lyme disease
Stenotrophomonas maltophilia and Aspergillus fumigatus	Corneal infection
Infections predisposing to polymicrobial disease
Influenza viruses, parainfluenza viruses, respiratory syncytial viruses, adenoviruses, measles viruses, rhinoviruses, and coronaviruses with Streptococcus pneumoniae, Strep pyogenes, Haemophilus influenzae, Staph aureus, Neisseria meningitidis, M tuberculosis, or Bordetella pertussis	Respiratory disease10
Coronavirus and Escherichia coli	SARS
Respiratory tract viruses and bacterial infections	Otitis media11, 12
Varicella-zoster virus and Strep pyogenes	Invasive group A streptococcal disease32
Additive polymicrobial infections
Aerobic and anaerobic gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria and Candida spp	Periodontal disease33
Prevotella-like bacteria	Caries
B pertussis, Strep pneumoniae, Staph aureus, H influenzae	Pertussis34
Nocardia asteroides and Cryptococcus neoformans	Lung abscesses
Herpes zoster and tuberculosis	Tuberculosis
Pseudomonas aeruginosa, S maltophilia, Prevotella oris, Fusobacterium gonidoformans, Bacteroides fragilis, Leptotrichia-like spp, Abiotrophia defecta, Citrobacter murliniae, Lautropia mirabilis, and Sarcina ventriculi	Cystic fibrosis25
Aerobic and anaerobic gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria	Peritonitis13
HBV, HCV, and HDV	Hepatitis14, 15
HCV and HIV	Hepatitis14, 15
Norwalk-like virus and Aeromonas sobria or E coli	Gastroenteritis
Schistosoma haematobium and S mansoni	Intestinal schistosomiasis
Combinations of Corynebacterium urealyticum, Gardnerella vaginalis, Anaerococcus lactolyticus, Bact vulgatus, Dialister invisus, Fusobacterium nucleatum, Lactobacillus iners, Leptotrichia amnionii, P buccalis, P ruminicola, Rahnella aquatilis, and Strep intermedius	Urinary tract infection
Staphylcoccus spp, Streptococcus spp, and HACEK group	Endocarditis

Mycoplasma species bacteria are one of the smallest bacteria known to reproduce on their own. They do not have a cell wall like most other bacteria do. This makes creating a vaccine extremely difficult as there is little structure to stimulate an immune response. Lack of a cell wall also makes them resistant to many antibiotics that typically kill bacteria by disrupting cell wall structure. Several Mycoplasma vaccines are available for cattle but the efficacy is poor. Efficacy goes up a little if multiple doses of vaccines are given before exposure. Unfortunately very few vaccines will prevent disease, most only decrease severity whether they are approved for humans or animals.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Mycoplasma species bacteria are one of the smallest bacteria known to reproduce on their own. They do not have a cell wall like most other bacteria do. This makes creating a vaccine extremely difficult as there is little structure to stimulate an immune response. Lack of a cell wall also makes them resistant to many antibiotics that typically kill bacteria by disrupting cell wall structure. Several Mycoplasma vaccines are available for cattle but the efficacy is poor. Efficacy goes up a little if multiple doses of vaccines are given before exposure. Unfortunately very few vaccines will prevent disease, most only decrease severity whether they are approved for humans or animals.

That's great info. Thank you.
My point was more that the pharmaceutical science could be there in the future. It obviously has its challenges or we wouldn't be having this discusson. Deciding that a pharmaceutical treatment is not the answer could be a self fulfilling move.