MORE ON WOLVES

[Ithaca 37]

Here's the WY plan:

http://gf.state.wy.us/html/wildlife/wolf/wolfmanagement.htm

More info:

http://www.greateryellowstone.org/act_wyo_wolves.html

and more:

http://www.greateryellowstone.org/act_wolves.html

more: "1. WYOMING'S CLASSIFICATION DOES NOT PROTECT WOLVES.
Wyoming's proposed wolf management plan classifies wolves as "predator" in one part of the state and a "trophy game animal" in another. According to their classification system, almost every wolf in Wyoming has the potential to be listed as a "predator," which means they can be killed by residents at any time for no reason. Since many wolves from the Yellowstone and Teton packs range outside of the National Parks, this "predator" classification will jeopardize the survival of these breeding packs with unregulated killing.

By creating this dual classification, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission has not proven that they want to manage wolves for the benefit of wolves and of people."

http://www.predatorconservation.org/get_involved/take_action/activist.html

"Idaho's plan was passed by the state legislature in March. Montana has just
concluded a public comment period and is scheduled to release a draft plan
on July 1. A final decision on Montana's plan is expected in December.

Until now, Wyoming had made no effort to move forward in developing its wolf
plan since the failed interim management plan attempt."

http://www.wolf.com/pipermail/howling/2002-May/000032.html

"Plans to remove federal protections from gray wolves in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho are in jeopardy because of this week’s vote by the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission to classify some wolves as predators.


If that vote is formalized into Wyoming’s management plan for wolves, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service won’t propose removing wolves in the northern Rockies from the Endangered Species List, said Ed Bangs, federal wolf recovery coordinator in Helena.


“That means wolves would stay on the list indefinitely,” Bangs said Wednesday."

http://www.montanaforum.com/rednews/2002/10/31/build/wildlife/wolfdelist.php?nnn=6

Here's the result of a search on Yahoo. Read at least three pages of search results:

http://www.google.com/search?q=wyoming+wolf+management+plan&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=0&sa=N

Maybe all the anti wolf posters here can tell us why the WY plan is a good one and every other state should follow the WY lead!


I'm sure some of the HT posters think the WY plan is a good one but ya gotta ask yourself who is holding up the delisting process and allowing the wolves to continue killing every elk and deer in the Rocky Mountains!

 

[sdgunslinger]

You are dreaming Ithaca , if you think any sort of wolf season will be set and carried out before you are in your grave.

Just look at the history of this process . In Minnesota there are 2 or 4 times or more wolves over the original population goals . Still no hunting seasons .

Sport hunting will never control wolf numbers anyway .

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-19-2002 05:02: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]</font>

 

[tmsander]

OK, from Ithaca's last post, it seems that my initial understanding of the WY plan was reasonably accurate. But I still ask why the plan is bad. It seems designed to keep wolves restricted to areas they should be in and out of areas they shouldn't be in. So, if this plan is what is holding up delisting, what does that say about the intentions of those with the power to make the delisting decision?

 

[Ten Bears]

I think we should be promoting red wolfs in the east.

We had wolfs here before they brought us more. Has anybody looked into reintroducing wolves and such back east?
That would be fair.

I am waiting for my wolf tag. I wonder how long you'll be able to call them in with howling? I wonder if all the permit holders will be allowed to hunt together? I heard that the Idaho plan calls for waiting five years after the state gets control before the hunts will be allowed, anybody know any different?

 

[MarlandS]

Hey Ten, it seems to me that Red Wolves have been reintroduced in South Carolina .. Atleast I remember some flap about them in the news a few years back..

 

[Oak]

North Carolina, Mars, in 1987. Here's a link. Unfortunately, there isn't a single whitetail deer left in North Carolina now, and hunting has been shut down.

Red Wolf Reintroduction

Oak

 

[1_pointer]

Red Wolves were also reintroduced to Smokey Mtn Natl. Park in TN. I was fortunate enough to see one there a few years back. There are plans be developed to introduce wolves to NY, VT, and Maine. In addition, there are special provisions protecting the Florida Panther in FL and I think some sort of breeding program for them there. The Western states aren't the only ones with reintroductions going on.

 

[BuzzH]

Sdgunslinger, I disagree, there will be wolf hunts in ID, MT, WY. When it happens I'll be the first to say I told you so.

tmsander, WY's plan sucks because it doesnt do a thing to try to enhance wolf management at all. Its a big bunch of scared to death ranchers wanting the right to shoot wolves on sight. That doesnt make sense for many reasons.

Not all wolves kill livestock, yet according to the livestock industry, they all should be shot on sight? Why?

I had an old friend, Bud McCauley, who lived in White Sulphur Springs MT, who was a retired USFWS government hunter. He told me the biggest mistake he made in his career was not targeting the specific problem predators. Their approach in the 40's-80's was to kill every predator they could. Like he told me, livestock killing is done by a very small segment of the predator population. Why kill coyotes, fox, bears, wolves, etc. that arent a problem? The modern government hunters have gotten better at doing just that. Plus, he also brought up the point that the predators that move in behind the ones you take, could be worse livestock killers than the ones you took. Double edges sword for sure.

I'm all for landowners being able to protect their livestock on private property from any legitimate concerns. But that aint what would be happening if it was wide-open kill on sight outside wilderness and parks. It just wouldnt be a productive way to deal with wolf management. It just does not ensure any kind of regulated kill on wolves. I'm all for permits and quotas, etc. but not a shoot on sight rule.

 

[sdgunslinger]

You are welcome to say I told you so , if it comes to pass Buzz . About a year ago you said the wolf was about to be delisted and you had inside info .

Have they been delisted ?

Have any seasons been set ?


If and when any seasons are set , then the lawsuits will begin ........


You also made the point a while back that the average hunter can't find an elk to shoot and hasn't got a snowball's chance with a wolf .

I kind of agree with that , at least not enough to make any differnce in a wolf population .

 

[BuzzH]

Slinger, if WY would quit listening to the ranchers and get a legitimate management plan in place, they would be delisted.

MT and ID have acceptable plans, so if you want to speed the process, write Gov. Gerringer.

 

[MarlandS]

Thanks for the link Oak, I knew it was somewhere down there..the difference between NC and S.C. is just a couple of teeth anyway.

 

[Ithaca 37]

sd, Try to think positive about wolf delisting. I'm expecting you and all your rancher wolf hating buddies to be out hunting them as soon as it's legal. How many cougars you shot lately? What are you guys doing about all the deer and elk killed by cars? Some states have managed to reduce car/deer accidents very effectively. You could reduce the road killed deer in most states by enough to feed all the wolves and have a net deer loss of zero!

Ya gotta take this delisting process one step at a time and , right now, the only thing holding it up is Wyoming ranchers. If PETA was holding it up you and all your welfare rancher buddies would be whining and crying like spoiled brats. How come you're not complaining about the ranchers holding it up?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-19-2002 19:45: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[sdgunslinger]

Ithaca , PETA , Defenders of Wildlife , Sierra Club , and numerous others have been holding up the delisting process in Minnesota for years . I also put some of the blame on your buddy Rod Sando when he was running the Mn DNR .

You won't need to cry about ranchers holding up delisting for long , there will be many others stepping into the fray .

As far as killing lions , they do seem to be a little scarce in these parts......

However , I do my part to reduce deer/auto accidents . I shoot as many deer as the state will legally let me take .........

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-20-2002 03:20: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

Thanks for the site and info.

We don't get much of that info around here.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithica,

I am a lot more aware of what is going on with the wolf issues then you'll ever be. You are right about one thing, it is all political. With the recent elections, the rules to this game have changed. Ed Bangs had better get with the program, or find a new job. I'm guessing he will reluctantly get with the program.

Wyoming is not about to let the wolf be used as a tool to get the ranchers off the range. In order to keep the wolves from being relisted, they only need to have 10 packs. No rule says where they can and can't be. Wyomings plan will keep 10 packs of 5 wolves in the Yellowstone-Teton Parks area. They wander, their dead. The lawyer weasels from groups like Defenders and Preditor Conservation Alliance can cry all they want. No one is listening. Sorry this plan doesn't allow for killing of livestock as you would wish for. Get used to reality!

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, What makes you think you're more aware of what's going on in the wolf issues?

So far you've never given us anything to back up any of the opinions you express here (at least not that I can remember).

How did the recent elections change the Endangered Species Act?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-21-2002 18:36: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[BigHornyRam]

Ithica,

Does the ESA require there to be more than 10 packs of wolves in Wyoming? What happened to the Grizzly reintro? All this crap is politics. You are more interested in using the wolves as a tool to get rid of ranchers, instead of working to get them delisted. There are better ways to get the bad ranchers of the range than turning the wild dogs loose. With friends like you, we don't need enemies!

Paul

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, You're completely wrong.

 

[Muledeer4me]

Two thumb's up to Paul.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Paul, "There are better ways to get the bad ranchers of the range than turning the wild dogs loose."

What are the better ways and where have the better ways been successful?

MD4M, Can't you contribute anything besides your wise ass posts?