Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

[ismith]

Sad. But true. mtmuley

Metalica is cool.

 

[Schism]

If MT considers limiting NR hunter numbers per region, I think they should also consider reducing the length of the NR season for mule deer. Perhaps limit them to the first two weeks of the current rifle season. IMO region/unit caps and shortened seasons need to to happen so let's get the show on the road.

The R7 that I grew up in 40 years ago is gone and it's a damned shame!

 

[mtmuley]

Metalica is cool.

Worked on a house for Newsted. mtmuley

 

[brockel]

If MT considers limiting NR hunter numbers per region, I think they should also consider reducing the length of the NR season for mule deer. Perhaps limit them to the first two weeks of the current rifle season. IMO region/unit caps and shortened seasons need to to happen so let's get the show on the road.

The R7 that I grew up in 40 years ago is gone and it's a damned shame!

Figure out how many non residents each region can handle. Take that number divided by 5 for each of the 5 weeks of general season. Make them apply for one of the 5 weeks of season. If drawn give the opportunity to purchase an archery permit that allows their general tag to be used during the archery season. Would spread out the pressure over the whole season vs the last 2 weeks or season being packed

 

[YoungGun]

Figure out how many non residents each region can handle. Take that number divided by 5 for each of the 5 weeks of general season. Make them apply for one of the 5 weeks of season. If drawn give the opportunity to purchase an archery permit that allows their general tag to be used during the archery season. Would spread out the pressure over the whole season vs the last 2 weeks or season being packed

Aaaand take that same number of non-residents per region, multiply it by 10, and that's how many resident tags are sold for that region, Colorado doesn't have good deer hunting by just limiting non-residents. Take it a step further, and make all the tags valid until November 10- Limited entry after that with the exception of statewide whitetail.

Edit to add: I love my opportunity in Montana as a resident. But I would rather strike out on drawing a region of my choosing from time to time for better Mule Deer hunting when I did have the tag and look for a whitetail on the years I was riding the pine.

 

[DFS]

Aaaand take that same number of non-residents per region, multiply it by 10, and that's how many resident tags are sold for that region, Colorado doesn't have good deer hunting by just limiting non-residents. Take it a step further, and make all the tags valid until November 10- Limited entry after that with the exception of statewide whitetail.

We can cuss and discuss this for pages. We have. Montana’s unlimited opportunity has got us to where we are. It would be nice if the department would step in especially with all the funding we get from nonresidents. Wildlife first isn’t a hard concept.

 

[YoungGun]

We can cuss and discuss this for pages. We have. Montana’s unlimited opportunity has got us to where we are. It would be nice if the department would step in especially with all the funding we get from nonresidents. Wildlife first isn’t a hard concept.

A nominal price increase for tags and licenses, even application fees, would easily cover any lost revenue from any subsequent tag cuts as needed.

 

[YoungGun]

Won't those NR just go to another region though and then stress that area a bit more? I think that was brought up way at the beginning of this discussion.

Ideally, that region would have a cap as well, both resident and non-resident, that would prioritize overall herd health than tags in everyone of our pockets for an 11 week general season and 10 day traditional muzzleloader season.

 

[golfer]

A nominal price increase for tags and licenses, even application fees, would easily cover any lost revenue from any subsequent tag cuts as needed.

Wouldn’t those tag cuts need to be done via legislative route? And even a resident price increase would be done there as well?

 

[Raisin Bran]

I believe tags working around the 17,500 for NR is a big issue. For instance, the FWP region 2 office was telling people that if they wanted their family members to hunt here in montana with them (despite them never residing in mondtana), all they would need to do is take a montana hunter education, and then they would be qualified to be a Come Home to Hunt candidate the next year. This is not only disingenuous to the initial intent of the program. But it also circumvents the NR cap for those that know how to play the system.

Likewise, when I was at UM, there were several students I know of that gained residency for hunting purposes while they lived here and attended school. The problem is, I know a few of them didn't revoke their residency after leaving the state and came back to hunt as residents in future years after moving back home. If it weren't for me and a couple of other students saying something, these people likely would've gotten away with this for years to come. FWP needs to do more enforcement and verifying of individuals residency status, especially those in circumstances that are likely to leave at the end of their business in montana (students being one example).

This is a thing that should be addressed as one of the side tasks. it may not be huge numbers but is one of many adding into the issue.

 

[8andcounting]

The resident free for all everyone buys a tag for anywhere in the state needs to stop . This is a huge problem . The Turkey day shoot birth right is a huge problem . Every R should get a deer and elk tag before any NR does , but there needs to be some structure. Which is why I want regional caps for all . Residents are doing far more damage to the mule deer herd than NR . Until R look in the mirror and realize this not a lot will change . The no doe tags on public was a great first step and the region 4 changes are a good step too. But the free for all buy and hunt anywhere in the state anytime needs to stop

 

[Ben Lamb]

The resident free for all everyone buys a tag for anywhere in the state needs to stop . This is a huge problem . The Turkey day shoot birth right is a huge problem . Every R should get a deer and elk tag before any NR does , but there needs to be some structure. Which is why I want regional caps for all . Residents are doing far more damage to the mule deer herd than NR . Until R look in the mirror and realize this not a lot will change . The no doe tags on public was a great first step and the region 4 changes are a good step too. But the free for all buy and hunt anywhere in the state anytime needs to stop

It is easy to focus on the NR aspect and there's a lot of political hay to be made stoking the division between resident & non.

While the issues pointed to in R7 do need to be addressed, we need to know why NR's are taking the majority of deer before a sensible solution can be offered.

Focusing only on the NR side is only focusing on a small part of the problem. There has to be a holistic look at what is happening rather than siloed issues with simple fixes.

 

[Ought Six]

What’s crazy to me is that 2 biologists with the exact same degree from the exact same university, but on different sides of an imaginary state boundary line, would have such different views on what is best for mule deer. You step one foot to the south, can only shoot them Oct 1-Oct 15, step one foot to the north, unlimited opportunity to hammer them through the rut with high powered rifles for 5 weeks and then a muzzleloader after that. Shows how little of it is actually based on what’s best for the resource. If I was the biologist to the north, I think I would feel pretty useless, or feel like a sellout for having to try to justify current management when a short drive south shows things working a lot better for the species.

 

[SAJ-99]

The 10yr licenses sales spreadsheet would be very useful before throwing out solutions. The latest on FWP website was 2017 but I know it was posted here with data up to 2021, I just can't find it here or in my files.

 

[TOGIE]

Aaaand take that same number of non-residents per region, multiply it by 10, and that's how many resident tags are sold for that region, Colorado doesn't have good deer hunting by just limiting non-residents. Take it a step further, and make all the tags valid until November 10- Limited entry after that with the exception of statewide whitetail.

Edit to add: I love my opportunity in Montana as a resident. But I would rather strike out on drawing a region of my choosing from time to time for better Mule Deer hunting when I did have the tag and look for a whitetail on the years I was riding the pine.

We have deer units with 35-50% NR in it versus R and the deer hunting is still good.

 

[cgasner1]

Ideally, that region would have a cap as well, both resident and non-resident, that would prioritize overall herd health than tags in everyone of our pockets for an 11 week general season and 10 day traditional muzzleloader season.

I agree but also by doing this what effect does it have on the whitetail? Maybe we should be looking at also splitting deer tags that way. If we start pushing people around it will have other negative effects. That’s the hard part to me trying to see what will go wrong with a positive change

 

[BuzzH]

While the issues pointed to in R7 do need to be addressed, we need to know why NR's are taking the majority of deer before a sensible solution can be offered.

Not rocket science needed to explain it.

1. In the recent past, NRs could shoot a trailer load of mule deer.

2. Lots of public land.

3. Anyone with a tag from Wisconsin, Minnesota, Dakotas, eastern Wyoming, etc it's much closer and requires wayyyy less travel.

 

[Ought Six]

Focusing only on the NR side is only focusing on a small part of the problem. There has to be a holistic look at what is happening rather than siloed issues with simple fixes.

Not rocket science needed to explain it.

1. In the recent past, NRs could shoot a trailer load of mule deer.

2. Lots of public land.

3. Anyone with a tag from Wisconsin, Minnesota, Dakotas, eastern Wyoming, etc it's much closer and requires wayyyy less travel.

Additionally, if you spend all that money to come out to hunt, you aren’t going home empty handed, you’re filling that tag. I know a ton of R hunters who didn’t fill their deer tag this year, in fact, probably a majority of R hunters I know who hunt r7 didn’t fill their tag and not for lack of trying to find a mature mule deer. I know a NR who crippled a young 4-pt one day, looked for him a little the next day, and while looking, shot another young buck.. had to justify his $500 tag

 

[BuzzH]

Additionally, if you spend all that money to come out to hunt, you aren’t going home empty handed, you’re filling that tag. I know a ton of R hunters who didn’t fill their deer tag this year, in fact, probably a majority of R hunters I know who hunt r7 didn’t fill their tag and not for lack of trying to find a mature mule deer. I know a NR who crippled a young 4-pt one day, looked for him a little the next day, and while looking, shot another young buck.. had to justify his $500 tag

Also, NRs typically have much higher success rates in general due to using outfitters, paying trespass fees, and taking their tag more seriously.

 

[cgasner1]

Also, NRs typically have much higher success rates in general due to using outfitters, paying trespass fees, and taking their tag more seriously.

Be curious what percentage of non residents that is in 7