Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

[cgasner1]

Oct usually doesn’t have the cold snaps or snow either. So if a guy wanted to road hunt he couldn’t drive around all day with deer moving the warmer weather would probably have then held up hiding for the day

 

[BuzzH]

HD270 and HD261 went LE in 1998.

Single digit buck to doe ratio was the reason. Had absolutely nothing to do with making it a trophy unit.

By 2004 it was incredible. IIRC buck to doe was 30.

Then along came Vore.

If you know you know.

Vore was the Kevorkian of Montana wildlife.

 

[antlerradar]

What do you think completely separating mule deer and elk seasons would do? Say, mule deer rifle runs Oct 1-Oct 31, Elk Runs Nov 1-31 or later? I wonder if more people would hunt mulies strictly because there is no elk to hunt? Or, these incidental deer hunters that are actually hunting elk just stick to elk? IDK, I rarely have an elk tag in pocket anymore past bow season, so it wouldn't change my life, but I am curious what you an others think.

A lot of unknowns here. If a person has limited time and values filling the freezer they are saving their vacation for elk so I suspect that under this scenario many hunters would hunt a few weekends for deer but save their vacation time for elk.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Oct usually doesn’t have the cold snaps or snow either. So if a guy wanted to road hunt he couldn’t drive around all day with deer moving the warmer weather would probably have then held up hiding for the day

When hunting season gives you access to the rut, why hunt any other time?

The road hunting is better during the rut, so is the walk hunting.

 

[cgasner1]

When hunting season gives you access to the rut, why hunt any other time?

The road hunting is better during the rut, so is the walk hunting.

Interesting theory ya got there.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Interesting theory ya got there.

Lol well its not much of one.

But i know a lot of people that dont bother early nov/oct at all. Basically myself included.

My poorly implied point was that there might be more spread out pressure if the hunting is all non rut.

 

[cgasner1]

Lol well its not much of one.

But i know a lot of people that dont bother early nov/oct at all. Basically myself included.

My poorly implied point was that there might be more spread out pressure if the hunting is all non rut.

The point I was getting at is no one is ever excited to hunt on a 65 degree blue bird day. Now if it’s 0 and some snow even if you took the rut out deer have to eat to stay alive so they will be up and moving making them an easier target. A October season would be less likely to that weather to cause that.

 

[BuzzH]

A lot of unknowns here. If a person has limited time and values filling the freezer they are saving their vacation for elk so I suspect that under this scenario many hunters would hunt a few weekends for deer but save their vacation time for elk.

Exactly what happens in Wyoming. It forces hunters to make a decision when both deer and elk aren't open at the same time. Most guys can't take off a week or two for both.

Plus, it would stop opportunity killing...shooting a deer while elk hunting and vice-versa.

I've wrecked some very good deer hunting days by killing elk.

 

[mtmuley]

Exactly what happens in Wyoming. It forces hunters to make a decision when both deer and elk aren't open at the same time. Most guys can't take off a week or two for both.

Plus, it would stop opportunity killing...shooting a deer while elk hunting and vice-versa.

I've wrecked some very good deer hunting days by killing elk.

If I could hunt quality mule deer in Montana, I'd stuff a cow elk in the freezer and focus on a muley. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

If I could hunt quality mule deer in Montana, I'd stuff a cow elk in the freezer and focus on a muley. mtmuley

Yep. I always kill the first legal elk I see in Montana so it doesn't interfere with deer hunting.

Starting about November 5th, I hate having an elk and deer tag.

 

[Stifler]

I found this discussion interesting...

 

[BradA]

I found this discussion interesting...

Listened to this today it was a great podcast

 

[sclancy27]

I found this discussion interesting...

I was just gonna post the same thing. I don't think FWP knows near as much across units as Utah does because we put in a fraction of the research effort. In 25 yrs of hunting, I have never seen a deer in MT with a collar. I have seen a couple elk. In comparison, I have seen several collared deer in both WY and AZ in a tiny fraction of the time in the field there.

 

[SAJ-99]

I was just gonna post the same thing. I don't think FWP knows near as much across units as Utah does because we put in a fraction of the research effort. In 25 yrs of hunting, I have never seen a deer in MT with a collar. I have seen a couple elk. In comparison, I have seen several collared deer in both WY and AZ in a tiny fraction of the time in the field there.

That must be region specific. I have seen a lot of collared deer in MT, but it was a very specific area. I think they were doing research on CWD.

 

[sclancy27]

That must be region specific. I have seen a lot of collared deer in MT, but it was a very specific area. I think they were doing research on CWD.

I should say specific to R7 and R3, where I have hunted mule deer.

But UT is collaring deer in every unit studying all kinds of things. They actually know what is causing the population drops vs MT which, outside of big events, has no idea it seems.

 

[Stifler]

I was just gonna post the same thing. I don't think FWP knows near as much across units as Utah does because we put in a fraction of the research effort. In 25 yrs of hunting, I have never seen a deer in MT with a collar. I have seen a couple elk. In comparison, I have seen several collared deer in both WY and AZ in a tiny fraction of the time in the field there.

Yeah I thought this was very interesting. I wonder if maybe region 6 and 7 could benefit from something like this adapted... put one region on a shorter season like mentioned above, and one region on this management style, and put them head to head at the same time. Re evaluate in 2 3 years and see what one is working better and why.

I also agree I haven't seen many collard deer or elk really in montana... I have seen 1 of each so I think alot more GPS data and fawn data could really improve how we the public see... it's hard to argue facts... fwp leaves to much speculation to the general public... counts work but if you had the data of even what 2000 deer are doing every hour, its gonna be able to help biologists I would think. Maybe thats too much work for our department, or not willing too look into new ideas... They mention in the podcast those costs are going down on collars.. so between R and NR if we all could buck up 10 15 more bucks a tag to get the needed collars and vaginal transmitters... I'm 100% game for more money being used to evaluate speices on our landscape and try new managment strategies.. we dont know what we dont know, untill we know it....

And if they needed volunteers like Utah uses, I also think that could help bridge between fwp and hunters. Possibly be less of a gap. If more people were seeing management evolving. Just a thought... but it couldn't really hurt, I wouldn't think? Maybe piggy back of someone else's research and try both ways... but I think It would be a interesting experiment they could put head to head at the same time.

 

[sclancy27]

Man, I've been reading mule deer research for 12-15 years. That podcast is the single best compilation of mule deer information that I have ever seen or heard. I hope everyone takes an hour to listen to it.

 

[Stifler]

Man, I've been reading mule deer research for 12-15 years. That podcast is the single best compilation of mule deer information that I have ever seen or heard. I hope everyone takes an hour to listen to it.

I would also encourage everyone to find some time to listen to it. Utah seems to be trying to get the right research done to make some educated changes.

 

[antlerradar]

Yeah I thought this was very interesting. I wonder if maybe region 6 and 7 could benefit from something like this adapted... put one region on a shorter season like mentioned above, and one region on this management style, and put them head to head at the same time. Re evaluate in 2 3 years and see what one is working better and why.

I think the issue with this is going to be that hunters are more mobile than in the past. If we cut the season in 6, hunters that can not find the buck they are looking in the first few weeks will move to 7 when the season in 6 is over. This will over value the effect of a shorter season in 6 and make the long season in 7 look even worse.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think the issue with this is going to be that hunters are more mobile than in the past. If we cut the season in 6, hunters that can not find the buck they are looking in the first few weeks will move to 7 when the season in 6 is over. This will over value the effect of a shorter season in 6 and make the long season in 7 look even worse.

On the bright side, the hunter mobility shows Montana Rs can pay more for a tag.