Montana, talk to me about your mountain whitetail.

[Rie Bread]

I’d make a guess in that the whitetail move up into the mountain habit due to competition and predation. can warmer up on the mountain side than in the cold sinks

 

[mtmuley]

Definitely proliferating and I do wonder if they are doing some displacing of mule deer but I couldn’t say

I wonder this also. I hunt a unit that is LE for mule deer. I can't prove it, but the downfall of mule deer and the uptick in whitetail coincide. And predation is not moving whitetail into this area. The recent proliferation happened years after wolves got here. Miss Randy11 on this one. mtmuley

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

Going from old memory but Dr. Geist had a theory on this. Everything being equal a mature muley would whip a mature whitetail during the rut. But the lack of mature muleys led to whitetails doing more of the breeding including mule deer does. The offspring didn't have the survival instincts of either species. Eventually the mule deer would be displaced. I'm sure there was more to it but that's what I remember.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I killed a nice whitetail in the Selway a few years back!

But that's definitely just overflow from MT.

Now I know you’re full of chit. There’s nothing in the Selway, woofs are them all.

 

[TOGIE]

Going from old memory but Dr. Geist had a theory on this. Everything being equal a mature muley would whip a mature whitetail during the rut. But the lack of mature muleys led to whitetails doing more of the breeding including mule deer does. The offspring didn't have the survival instincts of either species. Eventually the mule deer would be displaced. I'm sure there was more to it but that's what I remember.

Now we’re cookin

 

[mtmuley]

Now we’re cookin

I highly doubt whitetails are breeding mule deer does as a rule. I know they are not where I am. mtmuley

 

[daltrix99]

Agree on whities displacing mulies from an anecdotal perspective where I hunt in western Montana. Maybe there’s data to suggest otherwise but we definitely notice it.

I’d also speculate that Montana’s mountain whitetail population is influenced by our proximity to Alberta and Sask and their historic WT herds, vs Colorado as an example.

For NR hunters looking for it as a rewarding hunt, I’d really consider something else, and I genuinely mean that, not just trying to keep people away. As a local who loves mountain whities and has killed a few, it takes a long time to learn the spots, find the deer, and then still to get super lucky with a mature buck. Lots of forkies in the mountains. We run cameras, backcountry tree stands, and a lot of hard hunting in serious mountains for whitetails, and we do not see shooters every year.

 

[rjthehunter]

Now I know you’re full of chit. There’s nothing in the Selway, woofs are them all.

The woofs sucked out there. But rattling in whitetails was a blast! Actually saw a fair amount. We were wayyyy back in from the secret creek strip!

 

[TheTone]

The woofs sucked out there. But rattling in whitetails was a blast! Actually saw a fair amount. We were wayyyy back in from the Rock creek strip!

I’m sure you weren’t. Let’s not hotspot this poor area

Everyone go to rock creek! Lots of big bucks up rock creek

 

[TOGIE]

I highly doubt whitetails are breeding mule deer does as a rule. I know they are not where I am. mtmuley

Certainly. Not by rule, if at all. But I wanna hear the theories - the good the bad the ugly.

What was the whitey population like there 30 years ago? 100 years ago, and 400 years ago? Same with the mule deer.

What kind of whitetail populations in those mountains were Lewis and Clark seeing, if any?

Cause I’m confident Sir George Gore wasn’t blasting whitetail as traipsed about the colorado mountains. Or was he?

 

[mtmuley]

Certainly. Not by rule, if at all. But I wanna hear the theories - the good the bad the ugly.

What was the whitey population like there 30 years ago? 100 years ago, and 400 years ago? Same with the mule deer.

What kind of whitetail populations in those mountains were Lewis and Clark seeing, if any?

Cause I’m confident Gore wasn’t blasting them as traipsed about the colorado mountains. Or was he?

I can tell you where I hunt in Montana there were zero whitetails there 40 years ago. Yeah, been hunting it that long. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

I’m sure you weren’t. Let’s not hotspot this poor area

Everyone go to rock creek! Lots of big bucks up rock creek

 

[TheJason]

Interbreeding is not creating mule deer with no survival instincts.

I’ve hunted areas with overlap for decades. I suspect what you are witnessing is a combos the following

1) Mule deer are more susceptible to hunting, subtle changes in habitat, competition from elk, and predation

2) Whitetail deer are more adaptable to subtle changes in habitat, and less susceptible to hunting pressure.

3) Habitat changes over the last few decades favor whitetail more than they do mule deer

 

[mtmuley]

Interbreeding is not creating mule deer with no survival instincts.

I’ve hunted areas with overlap for decades. I suspect what you are witnessing is a combos the following

1) Mule deer are more susceptible to hunting, subtle changes in habitat, competition from elk, and predation

2) Whitetail deer are more adaptable to subtle changes in habitat, and less susceptible to hunting pressure.

3) Habitat changes over the last few decades favor whitetail more than they do mule deer

I agree. But, in the area I live in, mule deer have moved in to lower elevation habitat over the years. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

I agree. But, in the area I live in, mule deer have moved in to lower elevation habitat over the years. mtmuley

Probably more as escapement from hunting, predation, and better habitat.

 

[mtmuley]

Probably more as escapement from hunting, predation, and better habitat.

As opposed to the whitetail moving to the higher elevations. I have questions for our biologist. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

As opposed to the whitetail moving to the higher elevations. I have questions for our biologist. mtmuley

Whitetail are less susceptible to the hunting pressure and predation. Your habitats there aren’t all that different than some of the higher elevations just east of me. The whitetails thrive in it. The mule deer just hang on or move down in elevation

 

[TOGIE]

So then, would some folks likely conclude that they’re maybe not endemic to the mountainous regions?

 

[mtmuley]

So then, would some folks likely conclude that they’re maybe not endemic to the mountainous regions?

In my area? No. mtmuley

 

[BackofBeyond]

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Yes. Rock Creek, in Montana, is the place to be!