Montana mule deer rant

[SAJ-99]

Ive shared this before, but this district south of where I hunt had an aerial survey performed on mule deer in 2021 and these are the results. Just think, these results were good enough for them to proceed with mule deer buck hunting on one’s general tag.

WPT = waypoint. It’s not the hunting districts. These are the counts for the entire district.

If something like the Elk Advisory Committee was created for mule deer, and one of the ideas was to cease rut hunting, I bet 75% of Montana hunters would be opposed.

There’s some sort of psychological feature of many human hunters today that feels ok is good enough, then bad is good enough, then abysmal is the wolves fault. I sometimes wonder if it is because we are so far from the days when Montana voluntarily ceased hunting, in some places for decades, to save it, that folks just think states of affairs manage themselves. They don’t, of course, and it’s hard to make folks realize that good things - good times - don’t come easy.

I thought about this after my initial reaction, which probably aligned with yours. But really it is hard to conclude anything from the 7 WPTS in one year. If we could compare the trend over years we could have more informed opinions.

I think of how the federal agencies (US and Canada) do pond and duck counts every year. They fly the same transacts and walk the same fields year after year, that they have for decades. That gives them a lot of data to compare to the past. I'm not saying hunters don't complain about the results, but in terms of useful, informative data, it is a solid method. It seems FWP is doing something similar here? Maybe I'm just hoping. I guess I'm not sure what to make of the numbers.

 

[antlerradar]

Are mule deer viewed as a money-maker (hunting) or a money-loser (livestock competition) by landowners, in general?

Hold the season during the rut and mule deer does are the best money making buck decoy there is. Have the season before the rut and those same does are magically transformed in crop eating money losers.
In general mule deer are viewed much more favorably than elk or whitetails by ranchers.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I know we are beating a dead horse, but it will never get any better without limiting the number of tags. How do we get there?

Yeah that's never gonna happen because everybody likes to bitch about how bad the hunting is but none of them are willing to change anything.

 

[Nick87]

 

[pluckem]

Agreed. Even if half those tags are sold to NR at $75 or whatever a pop, the overall revenue isn’t exactly a game changer to FWP’s annual budget. There’s something else afoot that isn’t financial greed from FWP.

I can agree with that and tag numbers fluctuate so not like they can sustain a budget when those tags disappear. However Nonres tags are not cheap so while $8 tags wont amount to much $800 nonres general tags with whatever all these does tags costs does add up.

In North Dakota - the powers at be have mentioned more than once that "you cant stockpile deer in North Dakota". The landscape and habitat just cant support high herd numbers for a sustained period of time. Between bad winters, drought, disease..... your always potentially only 1 bad winter from a major decline in numbers. So they seem to take the approach of take advantage of them when you have them.

I would be curious to know if that's how Montana biologists view the management as well.

 

[brockel]

Seen three mule deer does on a game rack heading east into town. I bet that road scum, slush, and magnesium chloride makes a good marinade.

 

[Beignet]

I can agree with that and tag numbers fluctuate so not like they can sustain a budget when those tags disappear. However Nonres tags are not cheap so while $8 tags wont amount to much $800 nonres general tags with whatever all these does tags costs does add up.

Only hunted MT as a NR once, but was under the impression that folks didn’t need the pricey NR deer combo to buy doe tags? Just all the general hunting licenses and some B tags?

I would be curious to know if that's how Montana biologists view the management as well.

I’d like to know about the biologists’ justification as well if anyone has any insight? I’ve never participated in the annual traditional fork horn and doe slaying fest over in R7 and never had reason to chat with the bios over there. Over here in R2 they don’t keep track of mule deer much beyond a few trophy/LE units (insofar as I know).

 

[Southern Elk]

#gritty!

Seen three mule deer does on a game rack heading east into town. I bet that road scum, slush, and magnesium chloride makes a good marinade.

 

[mtmuley]

Seen three mule deer does on a game rack heading east into town. I bet that road scum, slush, and magnesium chloride makes a good marinade.

That type of shit is killing just to kill. That's it. Bet those deer never make the freezer. mtmuley

 

[Nick87]

That type of shit is killing just to kill. That's it. Bet those deer never make the freezer. mtmuley

I'm always blown away at the amount of game that makes it to the freezer and that's as far as it goes. I know a ton of them, "yah never did anything with last years had toss it it to make room for this year."

 

[mtmuley]

I'm always blown away at the amount of game that makes it to the freezer and that's as far as it goes. I know a ton of them, "yah never did anything with last years had toss it it to make room for this year."

Yep. Saw a lot of that myself. Since distanced myself from those "hunters". mtmuley

 

[Nick87]

Yep. Saw a lot of that myself. Since distanced myself from those "hunters". mtmuley

Co workers mostly

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

It gets better after year 1 in the freezer!
Montana has saved me several thousand $$ over the last couple years by being so sh@tty that I won't blow money on their tags anymore. Which means I'm not buying food, gas, crap from Stone Glacier, Schnees, Cabela's or Scheels, no more gambling on their sluts, drinking their beer, or anything else in the state for 10 days + a year. Multiply it by the 3-4 guys that go with me and we saved more than switching to Geico.
Sucks the Elmer Fudds shoot mule deer does, but it'll end eventually and they'll never understand why.

 

[rogerthat]

I can agree with that and tag numbers fluctuate so not like they can sustain a budget when those tags disappear. However Nonres tags are not cheap so while $8 tags wont amount to much $800 nonres general tags with whatever all these does tags costs does add up.

In North Dakota - the powers at be have mentioned more than once that "you cant stockpile deer in North Dakota". The landscape and habitat just cant support high herd numbers for a sustained period of time. Between bad winters, drought, disease..... your always potentially only 1 bad winter from a major decline in numbers. So they seem to take the approach of take advantage of them when you have them.

I would be curious to know if that's how Montana biologists view the management as well.

Yes Montana biologists see hunting as a non-factor to the overall population. To them lots of other factors at play that make a bigger difference. They are right to some extent.

The doe tags are not being issued for money. I think it’s more about the politics of it. Eastern montana is ranch country first and deer country second. The bio I talked to said 11,000 does is just a drop in the hat to total deer numbers in region 7; therefore with deer numbers in the tank cutting them to 3000 still makes no difference but it looks like they are reacting to the population decline while still keeping that opportunity available. That’s what was explained to me. I left the conversation thinking well if hunting deer has no effect on population and we really never change anything, what do we need you for?

One thing I haven’t been able to figure out is what the hell they are doing on their counts. Long term trends on their counts look good on paper but something is badly amiss. More investigation needed

 

[SAJ-99]

I left the conversation thinking well if hunting deer has no effect on population and we really never change anything, what do we need you for?

All of these conversations should start at compensatory vs additive and where the line is drawn. It’s certainly different for big game vs birds and small game. I figure it is probably different for mule deer vs white tails. I’m sure studies are out there, if we want to find them and read them. I sure hope the biologist does.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

#gritty!

It's not as bad you think....might explain the neck twitch and the voices

 

[Pagosa]

I’ve spent 11 days in southeast Montana pronghorn, and elk hunting and mule deer numbers appear to be about 20% of what 2018/19 was and we seen 3 or 4 whitetail. We have did a lot of hiking/glassing. I remember from 1995/2005 seeing hundreds of whitetail/mule deer in irrigated fields. It was nuts. I did see a couple brute mule deer bucks on public parcels the past couple days. I’m not seeing a lot of pronghorn fawns, deer fawns, or elk calves either. But range conditions are excellent and the animals very healthy.

We went into Broadus on Sunday to dry out and do laundry and a lot of hunters were saying the same thing and were shooting does in order to fill tags. It’s pretty sad a great renewable resource is being pissed away and social influencers/hunting production companies keep promoting it.

 

[Oak]

Wrong thread.

 

[S-3 Ranch]

Maybe they should only allow recurve bows and flintlock muzzleloaders with roundballs for about 10 years. lol

That will separate the men from the boys quickly and it will also allow the population to bounce back...

Heck I am down with that !
I did bow , muzzle loader , pistol, only for our pronghorn hunts on the ranch , it was a sound management system for sure

 

[brockel]

We went into Broadus on Sunday to dry out and do laundry and a lot of hunters were saying the same thing and were shooting does in order to fill tags.

That should help things