Montana Block Management Thievery!

[Pagosa]

Seems like a lot of the BMA's get the pounded even before the rifle opener. Even type 2. I hunted on two BMA's northeast of Helena last year that were devoid of animals. I like National Forest/BLM better.
Seems like a rigged system for what Greenhorn and others are talking about.

 

[1_pointer]

Easy solution to this problem, and that is to have the MTFWP administer the BMA program, including distribution of permission slips.

Wyoming handles it that way with they HMA program, the WYGF holds a random drawing for ranches that only allow a certain number of permission slips.

Guys like the one Greenhorn described above, would not be able to pull that in Wyoming.

The BM program in Montana is in need of a serious audit...and kick the leeches out of the program.

Agreed! I don't think the HMA/WIA program in WY could be ran better. Only improvement, IMO, that that they would get the enrolled properties list out before the application deadline.

 

[Nameless Range]

That's garbage Greenhorn. I like Buzz's idea, I wonder how much more expensive that would be?

I hope you find some justice on the issue.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That's garbage Greenhorn. I like Buzz's idea, I wonder how much more expensive that would be?

I hope you find some justice on the issue.

It would be considerably more expensive depending on how they administer. Plus, the Legislature would have to rescind their (now) mandatory 4% reduction in budget for all agencies and approve the temp employees, which I don't know will happen. Their blind adherence to dogma over realistic budgeting makes getting improvements like that difficult at best.

 

[BuzzH]

Has the legislature prevented this or something? I'd guess it would take a lot of temporary staff to deal with the volume. Maybe doing it through a website. Does the legislature or the commission make this rule?

I don't think it would take much more than one person that knows how to run a simple computer program.

Wyoming's HMA program is administered through their website.

Hunters in Wyoming either enter a draw for a permission slip, or they just get one online if the permission slips are unlimited in number.

I applied for and/or obtained permission on 15 BMA areas in Wyoming this year...took about 10 minutes.

The hunter is responsible for printing out the permission slips and having them while in the field.

 

[BuzzH]

Nameless Range...check this out:

https://wgfoapps.wyo.gov/plpwhmprogram/frmHunterManagementHome.aspx

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Public-Access/Private-Lands-Public-Wildlife

Maybe Montana could leap into 2015...

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

I have experienced the same thing others have apparently. Great to hear GH is going after it and attempting to do something about it. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a system like Buzz mentions for reserved spots. Needs to be a fair system if they are getting paid from our $$$ for access.

 

[Nameless Range]

Those are pretty slick Buzz

 

[BuzzH]

Those are pretty slick Buzz

I cant think of a more fair way to issue permission and keep things above board.

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

I cant think of a more fair way to issue permission and keep things above board.

...certainly kicks cronyism in the teeth.

 

[.280 Remington]

Sad, but not surprising. There's always going to be someone who figures out how to game the system.

 

[1_pointer]

Sad, but not surprising. There's always going to be someone who figures out how to game the system.

The only gaming I've seen of the WY system is that a landowner may not allow permission for certain species or for certain times of the season. One I looked at for pronghorn did not issue any permission slips for the first 2 weeks of the season, but it was unlimited after that. Similarly, one I've used limits the number for the first 2 weeks, but it is unlimited for the last two weeks. I think rules such as this are more than fair to both the landowner and sportsmen as long as the paid fee is commensurate with the time hunting is allowed.

 

[cowboy]

I don't think it would take much more than one person that knows how to run a simple computer program.

Wyoming's HMA program is administered through their website.

Hunters in Wyoming either enter a draw for a permission slip, or they just get one online if the permission slips are unlimited in number.

I applied for and/or obtained permission on 15 BMA areas in Wyoming this year...took about 10 minutes.

The hunter is responsible for printing out the permission slips and having them while in the field.

That is just too easy of an answer for our Helena legislature to obsorb. Too many agriculture people up there that have the attitude that it's my land and only I will give permission to hunt. They seem to forget that it is not their wildlife.

The above senario is not an isolated case of a rancher saying we are booked up when in reality they are getting paid for their family/friends to access only.

 

[Danders134]

Six years ago I had a hard to draw elk tag and in this area there was some BM surrounded by blm and some private on one end, the elk were using an ag field on the end surrounded by private. I got permission from one landowner and contacted the other, who just happened to be the ranch with part in BM. He proceeded to tell me that this is what is wrong with hunters these days, is they are never satisfied all we want is more, more, more..All I wanted was the opportunity to fill my tag, he knew where the game was but I was what was wrong with hunters..

 

[schmalts]

Did you call FWP and turn him in? We have a program here in WI called Forest crop and Forest management and also AG tags. Lots of abuse in those and I have turned AG tag farms in for not allowing hunters on the property. At least out DNR gets things done when you call and I have been told farmers have lost the right to be in the program and get crop damage money.

 

[TheTone]

We had a similar issue here in Idaho with an access yes property; the access manager basically just sent permits to friends and those with them in the past not allowing anyone new in. This year permit numbers were cut at landowner request; amazingly he was telling people they were gone within a day and that fish and game was the reason for reduced permits. Local IDFG office caught wind of the shenanigans and took over control of issuing permits in a fair manner.

 

[AH_14]

If the BMAs permission is adminstered by a landowner and requires a reservation I am immediately suspicious. I've seen a couple exactly like Greenhorn....blatantly terrible and couldn't care less if they were reported. I DID NOTHING! Should have reported it!

I thought about this today and I think I came up with about 5 BMAs over the years that I know about that were being run pretty sketchy. I probably could never prove the allegations but any area or section that I asked about was always full or off limits or was only used for elder hunters or youth. When I said I would love to take my grandfather in there or a kid from town it was always---"Oh its full"

If its a BMA with a sign in box, park and walk, like a NF trailhead I am all in...and I hunt these areas.
If a hunter has to make a reservation, right now I am highly suspicious of the process.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's a great program. Don't let a few jokers ruin it. If I see this guy listed next year, I'll have a BMA coordinator on the line with me when I dial in at 6AM.

I could care less about hunting his crappy little ranch, but think that he's stealing from us and it should be stopped. He should have to refund all the FWP money he's taken since he's been enrolled, but I only have inquired last year, and then this year to see if he was a crook.

I sent a formal complaint, signed, to the state coordinator, regional coordinator, regional supervisor, and regional game manager.

I had a reply from the regional coordinator within 30 minutes and said he'd call me for more details.

I'll have faith in the process, until I see him in the program next year.

 

[AH_14]

I Will do my part too this year and formally file a complaint if a problem with a BMA comes up. I'll post it on here too...
I'll quit my worthless whining

 

[dwhite0622]

The idea of Block Management in Montana is great. The reality of the Program in our state is not so Great! I've heard lots of these stories and other similar issues across the state. I do think sometimes the landowners receive full compensation from FWP and their property is only public access for 25% of the season.
Always full on "those" weeks---"and those two sections are off limits!"
*Double dipping---taking full compensation---but reserving the ranch for family and friends for most all the year is not ok. And I doubt there is much anyone at FWP will do about it.

Absolutely.