Missed Opportunities: Hunters and Environmentalists

[Hydrophilic]

I work with IDNR on various projects through my work and I am seeing them prioritize more and more outreach aimed at getting people into hunting by extending outreach beyond the white male base that has sustained it for so long. The number of hunters is decreasing rapidly every year and as an effective wildlife management strategy, it is crucial to increase the number of hunters or other means for WL management will need to established (asap).

I guess this question is aimed at everyone here out of curiosity, do you think the overall hunting community will eventually learn to welcome more diversity within the community or do you think these initiatives will be met with backlash from a lot of hunters?....mostly speaking of hunters not in these forums, bc I've seen some really troubling groups.

Also, have you guys gone out of your way to help underrepresented people get in to the activity and if so, how? Why or why not?

You bring up some good points and I think it ties into the original topic of the thread via the Environmental justice movement.

Environmental justice - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's hard to get into hunting and fishing if you don't have exposure, as many of us have had through family and friends. It's even harder if you don't have the money, resources, and time to access quality hunting and fishing experiences.

If you are an inner city youth, for example, how likely is it you'll have access to decent fly fishing streams? This has been a valid criticism of some environmentalists and conservationists who have arguably focused efforts on far away areas, meanwhile urban areas receive little focus. That's a missed opportunity, not only to recruit more hunters/anglers, but to build rapport with communities who may have negative views of hunting.

Personally, I think finding the answer to your question involves finding ways to reach out to underrepresented groups to see what they are interested in. If we only work with current environmentalists, hunters, anglers, etc, I don't think much will be done to recruit different groups. These groups may not want to go out in the middle of nowhere and run into people with guns, and they might be intimidated to ask a farmer for access. Perhaps local efforts can focus on repurposing nearby land to pheasant hunting, or restoring a local creek and re-establishing a trout population.

Here's an example of an angling conservation group with an environmental justice focus.

Soul River Inc – Leaders For Environmental Justice

soulriverinc.org

 

[rtraverdavis]

The number of hunters is decreasing rapidly every year and as an effective wildlife management strategy, it is crucial to increase the number of hunters or other means for WL management will need to established (asap).

Is this true? I think it really depends on which state you’re talking about, and even then on a per capita basis.

“I guess this question is aimed at everyone here out of curiosity, do you think the overall hunting community will eventually learn to welcome more diversity within the community or do you think these initiatives will be met with backlash from a lot of hunters?”

Speaking only for myself, I’d love to see more diversity among hunters. The more people from different backgrounds that can put out a positive message for conserving wildlife and wild places, the better. I think the primary ire with more hunter recruitment in general is that it coincides with dwindling opportunity in many places. For many hunters, myself often included, it’s hard to square the desire to bring more people into hunting when access to quality hunting opportunities gets tougher and tougher. With the growing population in The West, it’s hard to see more pressure on wildlife. But if there is an emphasis in those initiatives placed on the need for advocating for conservation, fair chase, access, and preserving the right to hunt, then I’m all for it.

“Also, have you guys gone out of your way to help underrepresented people get in to the activity and if so, how? Why or why not?”

I have not gone “out of my way” to get anyone into hunting. But I’m glad to help people who are genuinely interested. Living in a big city, I have regular interactions with people who know very little-to-nothing about hunting. But I love to hunt and if we have guests over for dinner then I will always make wild game and the topic of hunting, where the animal came from, etc will definitely come up. One of those guests, the husband of one of my wife’s friends from work, was one of those guests. He happens to be, I think, one of the underrepresented people you ask about (he’s Filipino) and has become my hunting partner (when our schedules actually align). But getting him into hunting wasn’t borne out of an initiative, it started with a relationship and developed over time. Personally I think relationships are the best place to start with getting people involved, but understand there are many limitations to this, and many communities don’t have access to a single person that hunts.

One guy’s perspective, FWIW.

 

[BWALKER77]

The idea that environmentalism is good for hunting is laughable. Most of the game we hunt thrives on early growth conditions that are generated by human impacts like logging. Since most environmentalists are also preservationists there is no reconciling with them.
On one side you have the environmental lobby which views humans as alien creatures on the land scape. On the other nature is viewed by what it can provide humans. IE nature is our garden to be used for our benifit. I side with the latter.
And FWIW the pebble mine thing is a catastrophe. It should have happened and now that it is dead a mine will be built in a third world country with very little respect for the environment. Because poor people don't give a shit about the luxury of environmentalism and the environment isn't bound by national borders. The Pebble thing was straight up NIMBY'ism.

 

[hossblur]

I live in the heart of the divide. Utah is home to the most visited parks in the country, we make a living selling skiing.

Yet, Mike Lee is my Senator. Rob Bishop was my congressman.

Often when talking to reps about issues that SHOULD be a hunter concern in land, I find it's the "save our canyons" hippies doing the heavy lifting.


I joined BHA because I liked the idea of reaching out to non consumptive outdoors people. Problem is, they really don't want to reach back, such as Patagonia.

I left BHA when they embraced development on public land for solar farms and Windmill's.
Interestingly enough, after communicating back and forth, Land called me a ",John Muir disciple" which I found odd him thinking that was an insult.


Point being, the forests I hunt are dead from pine beetle. I have 21 moose points, and moose, are struggling. I can't prove it, but it sure seems like ducks come down a little later, as did swans. Deer opener was generally snow now it's not

Something changed or is changing. I find it arrogant that humans believe themselves to have the power they do, but, we obviously contribute.

That said. Environmentalism is a 1st world issue.As we see now, the US isn't serious about getting off gas, we just want out of sight out of mind energy. Same with production and manufacturing.

I find I believe Al Gore to be a self righteous ass. And so is AOC. But "drill baby drill, and oil exporting I don't like either. As has been mentioned, "museum" conservation doesn't interest me. If I can't touch it, why do I care if it's there?

I think there are causes we could sign on to.

Copper bullets being one. Losing lead isn't the end of the world, hasn't been for ducks.

Not sure where the line is where our groups split, but there is one, and I'm not sure there is common ground in a lot of issues.

 

[elkduds]

. As has been mentioned, "museum" conservation doesn't interest me. If I can't touch it, why do I care if it's there?


Not sure where the line is where our groups split, but there is one, and I'm not sure there is common ground in a lot of issues.

I yield the floor to the gentleman from WI:

“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant, "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts? To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.”
― Aldo Leopold, Round River: From the Journals of Aldo Leopold

“Conservation is getting nowhere because it is incompatible with our Abrahamic concept of land. We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.”
― Aldo Leopold

“One of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Much of the damage inflicted on land is quite invisible to laymen. An ecologist must either harden his shell and make believe that the consequences of science are none of his business, or he must be the doctor who sees the marks of death in a community that believes itself well and does not want to be told otherwise.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

 

[Jack Ryan]

Lead was in the ground before humans took out. I don't see humans using it and putting it back as a problem.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Lead was in the ground before humans took out. I don't see humans using it and putting it back as a problem.

So was uranium… radon

 

[Mkamman]

Lead was in the ground before humans took out. I don't see humans using it and putting it back as a problem.

Like for reals?

 

[SwaggyD]

I got peppered by my uncle hunting grouse X amount of years ago and had 3 pellets implanted in my arm (the rest hit clothes and that was enough to stop them from penetrating skin). Met with a surgeon because I was worried about lead poisoning and going through airport security, etc. The surgeon told me I was exposed to more lead swimming in the local lake than what was in my body. That was mind boggling for me.

 

[hossblur]

Lead was in the ground before humans took out. I don't see humans using it and putting it back as a problem.

Is that really a hill we should die on?

 

[hossblur]

I got peppered by my uncle hunting grouse X amount of years ago and had 3 pellets implanted in my arm (the rest hit clothes and that was enough to stop them from penetrating skin). Met with a surgeon because I was worried about lead poisoning and going through airport security, etc. The surgeon told me I was exposed to more lead swimming in the local lake than what was in my body. That was mind boggling for me.

Was your uncle vice president at one time?

 

[SwaggyD]

Was your uncle vice president at one time?

I'm sure he would like to think so!

 

[OriginalOscar]

I joined BHA because I liked the idea of reaching out to non consumptive outdoors people. Problem is, they really don't want to reach back, such as Patagonia.

I left BHA when they embraced development on public land for solar farms and Windmill's.
Interestingly enough, after communicating back and forth, Land called me a ",John Muir disciple" which I found odd him thinking that was an insult.


Feb 21, 2021

Spot on about BHA who's heads will explode with announcement Outdoor Retailer moving from Denver back to Utah starting 2023. They were part of the rally and efforts to vacate Utah five years ago. Outdoor Retailer make right decision to return to Utah; a state which exemplifies outdoor recreation; non-consumptive and consumptive users.

Regarding environmentalism; hunters were the original environmentalists and man is capable of positive impact on the domain God entrusted to us. We don't need to develop every area, but areas such as Grand Staircase and Bears Ears are better wildlife habitat with water development, chaining, controlled burns, and predator management.

Rural communities and residents also deserve opportunity for quality of life which industries like ranching, timber, and extraction provide. Cows better than cabins, and oil/gas fields with dispersed pads better than large sterile solar farms.

 

[Pucky Freak]

As a young person I was part of a few hunting circles and a lot of environmentalist circles. During college (early 00's) I participated in talks, lectures, roundtables, forums, and debates on environmental topics. The personal conclusion I drew from this time in my life was to leave environmentalism and embrace my fledgling identity as a hunter conservationist. Reading Aldo Leopold was a pivotal experience for me. At the time, my biggest gripe with environmentalism was self-deprecation of the human race coupled with arrogance of "knowing what's best" for the natural world.

The two-party system in national American politics is all but sold out to corporate interests. As time goes on, the winners will be the ultra-rich, and among the many losers will be public lands, wild places, biological diversity, public access, and clean air and water. Slices of what is left of these treasures will be bought and divvied up by those with the deepest pockets. I believe that hope of stalling or reversing these trends involves hunters and environmentalists finding a way to work together towards common goals.

There are some steep barriers in this regard. I can rattle off a long list of the best of what hunters have to offer to causes that environmentalists care about. I'd like to think that I also have a pretty decent grasp of how we as a group perpetually make it difficult for environmentalists to even want to consider allying with us. I think now is more important than ever that we chose to focus on how we hunters, as a tiny percentage of Americans, can build bridges with the much larger interest groups such as outdoor recreationists, public access advocates, National Parks visitors, so-called non-consumptive public land users, locavores, etc. Some groups we have a lot less in common with, and it may not be worth our time to try and work together, such as with the pro feral horse lobby, ESA for megafauna, preservationists, HSUS, etc.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Is that really a hill we should die on?

We? I'm speaking only for myself and my opinions. I don't profess to know everything. I may be wrong about something. Some day.

These lead bans are just another way for the antis to attack guns, gun owners, and hunting. I don't believe for a minute that it serves any useful purpose to benefit sportsmens resourses or the enviroment in any way. I believe we will have to pick a hill sooner or later. It is silly to keep giving away the high ground just to appease our enemies and people who are going to hate us regardless.

 

[Jason73]

We? I'm speaking only for myself and my opinions. I don't profess to know everything. I may be wrong about something. Some day.

These lead bans are just another way for the antis to attack guns, gun owners, and hunting. I don't believe for a minute that it serves any useful purpose to benefit sportsmens resourses or the enviroment in any way. I believe we will have to pick a hill sooner or later. It is silly to keep giving away the high ground just to appease our enemies and people who are going to hate us regardless.

But it is true that ducks digest or die with these or because of these lead pellets in them then other animals eat them and get sick. I don't think you have to be anti hunting to see the issue here.

 

[mottlet]

The older I get, the harder it is for me to maintain any kinda useful purity standard. I've worked with CBD (gasp!) to protect public lands in the Boundary Waters and SCI to expand hunting on national wildlife refuges. My advice, especially in a world that increasingly thrives on pitting one team against the other: figure out what you want to achieve and go from there. If what you believe in hinges on who might or might not agree or disagree, well...reassess.

Also, I know a bunch of self-described environmentalists and a handful are some of my best friends. Even if I discount the ones that hunted when I met em, the rest would all find it hilarious how anti-hunting they supposedly are if they read this thread. Especially the ones I've taken on their first hunts.

 

[Jack Ryan]

But it is true that ducks digest or die with these or because of these lead pellets in them then other animals eat them and get sick. I don't think you have to be anti hunting to see the issue here.

Yeah, I can't argue with that. 1st I don't duck hunt. Never have. Don't know much more about it than you'd get from owning some dekes and reading a couple magazines. That acknowledged, I wouldn't call any opinion I have on ducks written in cement or anything. The general hunting community seems OK with regulations the way they are. I sure don't know any better so I'd go along with what duck hunters want.

 

[SwaggyD]

But it is true that ducks digest or die with these or because of these lead pellets in them then other animals eat them and get sick. I don't think you have to be anti hunting to see the issue here.

I’m just asking because I don’t know the answer, I just know what the surgeon told me. Are they dying from eating lead pellets from a shotgun shell or drinking the water at my local reservoir?

 

[Pucky Freak]

If you look at the diet of many birds, they eat tiny seeds that are similar in size and shape to lead shot pellets.