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'Minutemen' to Patrol Arizona Border

ELKCHSR

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'Minutemen' to Patrol Arizona Border

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen. Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing themselves civilian border patrol agents determined to stop the immigration flow that routinely, and easily, seeps past federal authorities.

They plan to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.

"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country.

"We've been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into our own hands," said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, Calif. "That is an outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law enforcement."

Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence show that al-Qaida terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexico border, James Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last week.

"Several al-Qaida leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons," Loy said in written testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the U.S. Border Patrol last year, 52 percent crossed into the country at the Arizona border. The agency increased the number of agents in the Tucson sector, which has its largest staff, from 1,700 to 2,100 over the last 18 months.

But that number is going to grow to try to plug the remaining holes, said Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner. About 10,000 federal agents now patrol the 2,000-mile southern border, he said.

Officials fear the Minuteman patrols could cause more trouble than they prevent. At least some of the volunteers plan to arm themselves during the 24-hour desert patrols. Many are untrained and have little or no experience in confronting illegal border crossings.

"Any time there are firearms and you're out in the middle of no-man's land in difficult terrain, it's a dangerous setting," said Bonner, whose agency is keeping a close eye on the Minutemen plans.

"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation," he said. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation."

Civilian patrols are nothing new along the southern border, where crossing the international line is sometimes as easy as stepping over a few rusty strands of barbed wire. But they usually are limited to small, informal groups, leaving organizers to believe the Minuteman Project is the largest of its kind on the southern border.

It may also prove to be a magnet for what Glenn Spencer, president of the private American Border Patrol, described as camouflage-wearing, weapons-toting hard-liners who might get a little carried away with their assignments.

"How are they going to keep the nutcases out of there? They can't control that," said Spencer, whose 40-volunteer group, based in Hereford, Ariz., has used unmanned aerial vehicles and other high-tech equipment to track and report the number of border crossings for more than two years.

"There's a storm gathering here on the border, and there are conditions ripe for some difficulty," he said.

The border agents agree.

The Minutemen "clearly have every reason to be upset with the federal government for abandoning them," said National Border Patrol Council president T.J. Bonner, no relation to the commissioner.

But "if anything goes wrong, God forbid, someone does injure an agent, this government is going to be turning both barrels on them and come after them with a vengeance," he said.

Gilchrist said the Minutemen are under strict orders to merely identify and follow illegal border crossers and alert federal agents. They should not interact with the immigrants except to offer food, water or medical care. If there's a couple of "bad apples" who turn up in the group, Gilchrist said, they will face prosecution if they step outside the law.

Something dramatic needed to be done to curb the years of crime, property damage and trash dumping caused by the border crossings, Gilchrist said.

"Things are out of control" he said. "And they've been out of control for decades."
 
I see were people in the south want the border tightened, and now their stepping up to do it on their own. Hope they can do it without trouble turning up.
 
Actualy... it going to be a observe and report type of activity......we have around 500 members, 16 pilots with planes....some members will have firearms [ conceal permits only] so you will not know who is packing [self defense only] here is the website... they don`t take just anyone.. you have to meet certain standards....WWW.MINUTEMANPROJECT.COM
 
cjcj, did you join? (or are you one of the leaders?)

I think it's a great idea. If I lived there and I was retired with plenty of spare time on my hands I'd join for sure. (if they'd have me)
 
I think it's a great idea as well. I would come down if I could afford it, but I can't right now (debt sucks).
 
I'm betting that the Government will step up to the plate when it is really realized they are dropping the ball on this problem.
They just don't seem to like the general populas doing any thing like this, but as has been becoming more obvious as time goes by, some one has to do it.
 
WH...yes i joined...i`m vocal but not one of the leaders.[Jim Gilchrist] is the founder/leader . this group is made up people from all walks of life but its leaders are mostly ex- law enforcment and military.....I will be at the april 1st meeting in Tombstone.... and will offer my help and or financial assistance... Its very difficult and costly for out-of-state people to help. its even hard for AZ people to help[unless your retired].....Elkchaser our Government.."WILL NOT" step up to the plate on this issue....{I wish you were right] Whether you like Bush or not ....He has his head up his ass on immigration. :MAD :MAD
 
i f you look an a map.. the boder with mexico is mainly reservation land, national monument,and military bases. be careful you dont want a firearms or kidnapping charge,
the fbi has juridiction on those cases. i know it is a FELONY to cross us borders illegally but you will be labeled the bad guy.. the reservation has there own hunters to pick up drug runners and such..the border patrol looks down on people who want to help.i am glad to see people wanting to help. when i lived in chandler i wanted to help so badly... people need to wake up, the murder rate in phoenix is raising really fast,if you have a nice vehicle you have to park it in your garage to keep it from being stolen..my father in law drove his new corvette down from boise and was in a gas station for less then 5 minutes and came out to see a beaner trying to steal it..to the people who have never seen this, drive to home depot in arizona, if you have a truck and a trailer you will be hasseled by illegals looking for work. if you dont have any work you better have someone guard your tools while you are shopping. when i was a plumber in arizona we would have to check our gullies that we were digging because they will steal anything copper to sell. I had to pull my pistol on a illegal to keep him from opening the passenger door on my car while my wife was ridding with me..I went on a few raids with (mesa)PD to bust drug dealers who were also illegals, they brag that if they are deported they will be back within 3 days. sometimes they call the INS on themselves for a FREE ride home for the weekend....mexico is letting murderers , rapists, and other scum of the earth migrate to the U.S.....getting a firearms charge
on the volunteers will be what they will be trying to do..
 
I respect the individuals who wish to help with the problem of illegal immigration. I just don't see this as workable. In most cases, vigilantes get in the way of the police and become more of a problem than a help. I hope it doesn't happen but I see the possibility of a lot of problems. People (US citizens and illegals) getting into a mess. Unless the individuals are properly trained and know what they are doing, they may end up in jail or dead. I've also read where watch dog groups become as corrupt as the people they are catching.
 
Matt...first you need to open up a dictionary and read what the word vigilantes says....If you are refering to the minuteman group.. are you saying that the minuteman group will get in they way of police /border patrol? Are you saying that the minuteman group is corrupt? In fact why don`t you show me where any "watch dog" group is corrupt!. Where are your FACTS? Or are you just spouting bullshit.
 
cjcj, I think the article says the minutemen may get in the way of agents:"Officials fear the Minuteman patrols could cause more trouble than they prevent. At least some of the volunteers plan to arm themselves during the 24-hour desert patrols. Many are untrained and have little or no experience in confronting illegal border crossings."

Wont be much help to the border patrol if they have to watch illegals AND minutemen.

Just about a guarantee some wing-nut will end up shucking iron on an illegal...someone like Fairchaseben...theres always a couple ten-watts in every group....
 
cjcj-
" "I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country." quoted from the above article.

vigilante- One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands. Please explain how the minutemen are not advocating taking law enforcement into one's own hands. By the way that comes from dictionary.com.

Note I said it is likely they will get in the way of law enforcement. I doubt they will act as neighborhood watches. The article itself states law enforcement is not behind this group and will have to watch them.

"Any time there are firearms and you're out in the middle of no-man's land in difficult terrain, it's a dangerous setting," said Bonner, whose agency is keeping a close eye on the Minutemen plans.

"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation," he said. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation." quoted from the article above.

I didn't say any group was corrupt. I said these types of groups often become corrupt because the conditions in these groups allow for it.

AGAIN quoted from above...

It may also prove to be a magnet for what Glenn Spencer, president of the private American Border Patrol, described as camouflage-wearing, weapons-toting hard-liners who might get a little carried away with their assignments.

"How are they going to keep the nutcases out of there? They can't control that," said Spencer, whose 40-volunteer group, based in Hereford, Ariz., has used unmanned aerial vehicles and other high-tech equipment to track and report the number of border crossings for more than two years.

I didn't have to go too far to get the information. Maybe if you read the article next time I won't have to explain it so much.
 
Matt you obviously know "NOTHING" about the minuteman... and how they will conduct themselves at the border....they "WILL NOT" be arresting illegals and "WILL NOT" be openly carrying firearms. They are not a bunch of gun-toting "VIGILANTES" Thats why they are "selective" about who they chose as members.....This is a "observe and report" group....and also their function is to bring more publicity to the illegal immigration problem and focus on the governments failure to enforce its own borders. Show me how they are breaking any laws and/or are Vigilantes?..Using words like could and might be are speculative and total bullshit...as in monkeys might and could fly out of your ass. hump hump |oo

Amazing how some liberals are calling the minutemen "vigilantes" and they are still a month away from going to the border... |oo
 
cjcj- First, they haven't started yet which means everything is speculative on how they will conduct themselves. Hell, I don't know how you (as a member of this organization) will conduct yourself. By Jim Gilchrists own words he is taking it into his own hands. What do you think a Vigilante is. Vigilantes don't necessarily break the law. In some cases they do help law enforcement. The problem is members think they can expand their scope of law enforcement and at that point become a problem. What is going to keep this group "controlled"?

If stuff begins to happen, will guns be pulled? It seems you think that will never happen but I see it as not only possible but probable. Their intent is good and I agree with the idea of helping law enforcement. I just see the chance of problems being extremely high in this situation.

If you think nothing bad can or will happen, you are fooling yourself and trying to convince others.
 
Matt of course bad things can happen ..of course good things can happen too.. What i "object" to is SPECULATION that bad things will happen. How are the minutemen vigilantes?

This group is "controlled" by having their "patrol" members made up of ex-military and ex-law enforcment personel .members without these qualifications will be in support only and not out on patrol by themselves.... But you and other liberals choose to rail against or condem the minutemen based on nothing but bullshit [speculation] from some left wing biased A.P. writer.
 
Just for your info. there are at least 5 groups of "American Patriots" helping patrol the border. some are hardcore some are not. I`m sure our government will "chastise" the minutemen. as they do "any" group that highlights the real corruption and ineffectivness of the government itself...I will bet the AZ newspaper which is pro-illegal will do the same. [both already have] and if you lived down here you would have a much better understanding of the issue. [politics and illegal immigration] Don`t believe everything you read.
 
The minutemen are a joke, plain and simple.

WE have how many thousands of trained border patrol agents in AZ?

Yet, these untrained no-talent ass clowns think they can cover the AZ border?

You have got to be kidding me....HAHA.

cjcj, whether you like it or not, it sure sounds to me like the minutemen are going to be watched closely by LEO's...for good reason.
 
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