Michigan Changes to Youth and Disabled Hunts

[Dougfirtree]

I thought this was pretty interesting. That's a bold way to go about forcing the issue on antlerless harvest... I have to think there was another way to accomplish this that didn't land as such a kick in the crotch to the very deserving hunters who can hunt this season... That said, I do understand that letting a certain group kill bucks way before everyone else gets a chance has a downside and I also get that many states need to be creative to increase antlerless harvest.
What say ye, whether you're from Michigan, or not?

MSN

 

[ismith]

Why would they do that to orphans and cripples?

 

[Steelsearchin]

Our NRC is a damned joke.

 

[recon6036]

Until, the NRC looks at allocating tags based on population studies in realistic geographic hunt areas, nothing will change.
For example, a person can shoot the same number of deer in Southern Menominee county as they can in Northern Menominee County and the deer density, food source, etc. is nowhere the same.
Also, everyone can hunt deer from October 1 thru Jan. 1…. plus there’s crop damage permits and other early and/or extended seasons available.
I’m not a big fan of the early youth season.
Youth can hunt at a younger age and in my opinion, it does little for hunter recruitment.
Not that it matters, but I had to wait until 14 y.o. to rifle hunt deer…it was the right of passage to hunt November 15th with my dad, grandpa, uncles, etc when I became of age.
It’s a shame, Michigan has the potential to be an awesome deer hunting venue, but I don’t see anybody fighting to hunt here.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Until, the NRC looks at allocating tags based on population studies in realistic geographic hunt areas, nothing will change.
For example, a person can shoot the same number of deer in Southern Menominee county as they can in Northern Menominee County and the deer density, food source, etc. is nowhere the same.
Also, everyone can hunt deer from October 1 thru Jan. 1…. plus there’s crop damage permits and other early and/or extended seasons available.
I’m not a big fan of the early youth season.
Youth can hunt at a younger age and in my opinion, it does little for hunter recruitment.
Not that it matters, but I had to wait until 14 y.o. to rifle hunt deer…it was the right of passage to hunt November 15th with my dad, grandpa, uncles, etc when I became of age.
It’s a shame, Michigan has the potential to be an awesome deer hunting venue, but I don’t see anybody fighting to hunt here.

I can believe that the geographic allocation is a mess. I think that's pretty common, unfortunately. I'm guessing smaller management units with different rules could be a part of a better solution than this idea.

I guess I'd push back a bit on youth seasons, though. My kids started deer hunting during youth seasons in NY and Vermont. I've found them to be pretty helpful in stoking the interest. The weather is generally nice, the deer are unpressured... I think those of us who are trying to get our kids into hunting are fighting against more alternative pressures than ever before. I've appreciated the help.

 

[LorrieRobins]

There’s no question that managing deer populations requires a delicate balance, and creative solutions are often needed to keep ecosystems healthy and sustainable. Antlerless harvest (doe hunting) is essential to managing overpopulation, controlling the overall deer numbers, and preventing habitat destruction. Bucks tend to get more attention due to their trophy appeal, but an overabundance of does can lead to issues like increased vehicle collisions and crop damage. So, many states are trying to nudge hunters toward taking more antlerless deer.

 

[Nicoli7153]

Until, the NRC looks at allocating tags based on population studies in realistic geographic hunt areas, nothing will change.
For example, a person can shoot the same number of deer in Southern Menominee county as they can in Northern Menominee County and the deer density, food source, etc. is nowhere the same.
Also, everyone can hunt deer from October 1 thru Jan. 1…. plus there’s crop damage permits and other early and/or extended seasons available.
I’m not a big fan of the early youth season.
Youth can hunt at a younger age and in my opinion, it does little for hunter recruitment.
Not that it matters, but I had to wait until 14 y.o. to rifle hunt deer…it was the right of passage to hunt November 15th with my dad, grandpa, uncles, etc when I became of age.
It’s a shame, Michigan has the potential to be an awesome deer hunting venue, but I don’t see anybody fighting to hunt here.

Offshoot of their buy in to 3R's (recruitment, retention and reactivation) sounds good in theory but I have read that much of that theory was pushed by the gear industry. Think Matt Rinella did a piece on it.

Not quite as altruistic as it seems on its face.

 

[Addicting]

There’s no question that managing deer populations requires a delicate balance, and creative solutions are often needed to keep ecosystems healthy and sustainable. Antlerless harvest (doe hunting) is essential to managing overpopulation, controlling the overall deer numbers, and preventing habitat destruction. Bucks tend to get more attention due to their trophy appeal, but an overabundance of does can lead to issues like increased vehicle collisions and crop damage. So, many states are trying to nudge hunters toward taking more antlerless deer.

AI has entered the chat

 

[Ben Lamb]

The lower has a population issue that is not being met by hunters who only want to shoot a buck. The youth season and the disabled hunts going to antlerless is fine, if the rest of us take a hit as well. Personally, I'd like to see a mandatory earn-a-buck system in the lower with a 2-3 doe harvest metric. No need for 2 bucks tags if the goal is to increase harvest of antlerless either.

I'd like to see more specific area management as others have mentioned due to distribution, localized populations, etc but overall, you can get 10 antlerless licenses for the lower and you have around 4 months to fill them through the various seasons. That doesn't include DMAP licenses either.

Hunters need to step up to the plate and manage the population rather than only view hunting as recreation. Time to get to work, Michiganders.

 

[Addicting]

The lower has a population issue that is not being met by hunters who only want to shoot a buck. The youth season and the disabled hunts going to antlerless is fine, if the rest of us take a hit as well. Personally, I'd like to see a mandatory earn-a-buck system in the lower with a 2-3 doe harvest metric. No need for 2 bucks tags if the goal is to increase harvest of antlerless either.

I'd like to see more specific area management as others have mentioned due to distribution, localized populations, etc but overall, you can get 10 antlerless licenses for the lower and you have around 4 months to fill them through the various seasons. That doesn't include DMAP licenses either.

Hunters need to step up to the plate and manage the population rather than only view hunting as recreation. Time to get to work, Michiganders.

All of our private land issues down here, Hunters not willing to kill does isn’t it. Access and incentives to kill does is. Very little reason for an out of state land owner or large farm corporation to allow access.

Houses everywhere and stand off distance severely limit small property owners.

I have several in my yard any given day. If it wasn’t for 8 years of being nice to our neighbors we couldn’t do anything about the deer. Finally this year they gave permission for my kids to shoot two. Without that permission these deer are safe.

 

[Ben Lamb]

All of our private land issues down here, Hunters not willing to kill does isn’t it. Access and incentives to kill does is. Very little reason for an out of state land owner or large farm corporation to allow access.

Houses everywhere and stand off distance severely limit small property owners.

I have several in my yard any given day. If it wasn’t for 8 years of being nice to our neighbors we couldn’t do anything about the deer. Finally this year they gave permission for my kids to shoot two. Without that permission these deer are safe.

Access is a huge issue for sure. Unmanaged pressure on public also have consequences.

We have a place behind us that's around 150 acres. Nobody hunts it with the exception of 1 family member. Similarly, everyone with 1-20 acres is dealing with that issue as well. I'd love to see more incentives for landowners to allow access, as well as an enhanced hunter education course to help landowners select hunters who show a more thorough dedication to the effort and understand how landowner practices meld with the wildlife management decisions.

Getting landowners to allow access is always a challenge. Developing a relationship takes time and a lot of energy. Good for you for doing that! I don't think that challenge is different in any state where populations are overly abundant and hunters seek access.

 

[Nicoli7153]

Access is a huge issue for sure. Unmanaged pressure on public also have consequences.

We have a place behind us that's around 150 acres. Nobody hunts it with the exception of 1 family member. Similarly, everyone with 1-20 acres is dealing with that issue as well. I'd love to see more incentives for landowners to allow access, as well as an enhanced hunter education course to help landowners select hunters who show a more thorough dedication to the effort and understand how landowner practices meld with the wildlife management decisions.

Getting landowners to allow access is always a challenge. Developing a relationship takes time and a lot of energy. Good for you for doing that! I don't think that challenge is different in any state where populations are overly abundant and hunters seek access.

Think many are very afraid of any civil liabilities in case of an incident on their or on adjacent property. Seems to be the way of the world these days in many cases.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Think many are very afraid of any civil liabilities in case of an incident on their or on adjacent property. Seems to be the way of the world these days in many cases.

HAP takes care of liability, as does the Commercial Forest program (not sure how widely used that is in the Southern Lower, but it's a big part of access in the UP and NL).

DMAP also gives landowners a ton more leeway in how hunters are selected for those antlerless licenses.

I can't imagine the issue is any different than states like WY or MT where landowners are more concerned about the behavior of hunters on their properties. Neighbor across the street had down-state dudes who leased from him that take the antlers, and leave the carcass. Access leases are going for around $1200 for 20 acres, etc. There's more profit and far less headache for them to lease or simply allow friends and family than sign up for a program.

 

[Nicoli7153]

HAP takes care of liability, as does the Commercial Forest program (not sure how widely used that is in the Southern Lower, but it's a big part of access in the UP and NL).

DMAP also gives landowners a ton more leeway in how hunters are selected for those antlerless licenses.

I can't imagine the issue is any different than states like WY or MT where landowners are more concerned about the behavior of hunters on their properties. Neighbor across the street had down-state dudes who leased from him that take the antlers, and leave the carcass. Access leases are going for around $1200 for 20 acres, etc. There's more profit and far less headache for them to lease or simply allow friends and family than sign up for a program.

Don't know what happens if plaintiffs allege gross negligence (which most attorneys do). The State has qualified immunity unless there are allegations of gross negligence. Attorneys usually target the "Deep Pockets" (State). Can see both the landowner and the state getting dragged into the fray. A nightmare for the landowner, the state is used to it. Important to remember that the AG represents their client (The State).

I recognize that this is a worst case scenario. I hope it never happens because these are really good programs. But the world is a little crazier these days!

 

[Brauee20]

Shitty hunters have a lot to do with access issues as well. I just picked up another 60 acres to hunt this year that abuts another piece I have permission on. The elderly landowner asked for help keeping the riff raff off. The previous group got run off after she requested they try to shoot a majority of does, but wasn't going to stop them from filling their tags on respectable bucks. They shot one decent buck and 3 yearling bucks opening week between the three of them last year and were done.

I opened up her deceased husband's ground blind and 8 1lb propane cylinders came tumbling out. There's a lot of slob hunters in this state burning access for the next wave.

 

[gwhunter]

I was 16 when Michigan first opened the youth season. Shot my first deer and first buck that September. I was already going to be a lifelong hunter. But if I was on the fence, getting first crack and an "easier" shot at unpressured bucks still in their summer patterns sure may have sold me to the idea of hunting and potentially created a lifelong hunter.

I agree with Ben on the earn a buck idea. Maybe the first tag is a gimme, but if you want that second buck tag (which should be 4+ per side) you need to take a doe first.