Match bullets

[Jasher]

I feel like an idiot now. It's a 1-7.5 twist. I'm going to try a few different ones with a few different powders and see what I come up with.

 

[MThuntr]

nice 1:7.5 opens a lot of doors for you. I change my answer to 131 Hammers for hunting and pick your poison for targets. Personally I like the 140 RDF in my 6.5Creedmoor for targets but I managed to snag a pile of them as blemishes on the cheap otherwise one of the 140-147 Hornady bullets will put holes in paper and varmints just fine too

 

[ImBillT]

I wouldn’t shoot a bullet on an animal that wasn’t recommended by the manufacturer as a hunting bullet. I know a lot of folks love to scream that Berger hunting bullets are actually match bullets and shouldn’t be used on game, but I flat love them. Their hunting line is different than their other lines. They flat work as far as I’m concerned. The only problem I ever had was with one a couple I had pointed in a pointing die. I contacted Berger and they told me not to point any bullets that I was going to hunt with. Never a problem since.

I’m sure there are match bullets that work fine. I just don’t care to find out the hard way which ones don’t.

 

[Jasher]

I wouldn’t shoot a bullet on an animal that wasn’t recommended by the manufacturer as a hunting bullet. I know a lot of folks love to scream that Berger hunting bullets are actually match bullets and shouldn’t be used on game, but I flat love them. Their hunting line is different than their other lines. They flat work as far as I’m concerned. The only problem I ever had was with one a couple I had pointed in a pointing die. I contacted Berger and they told me not to point any bullets that I was going to hunt with. Never a problem since.

I’m sure there are match bullets that work fine. I just don’t care to find out the hard way which ones don’t.

I ordered the Berger elite hunters 140 grn and some Lapua scenar 139 grn. I will test them out before using them on any critters.

 

[mtmuley]

I wouldn’t shoot a bullet on an animal that wasn’t recommended by the manufacturer as a hunting bullet. I know a lot of folks love to scream that Berger hunting bullets are actually match bullets and shouldn’t be used on game, but I flat love them. Their hunting line is different than their other lines. They flat work as far as I’m concerned. The only problem I ever had was with one a couple I had pointed in a pointing die. I contacted Berger and they told me not to point any bullets that I was going to hunt with. Never a problem since.

I’m sure there are match bullets that work fine. I just don’t care to find out the hard way which ones don’t.

Bergers were/are match bullets Bill. But at sometime the boxes changed colors, and the word "hunting" was added. Instant hunting bullet. mtmuley

 

[FLS]

I’ve killed a couple antelope and several deer with 140 Berger Hybids out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. Kills were instant, but both are easy to kill. That’s about the size limit animal I would use that bullet on.
24” 8 twist Krieger, bullets going 2650 at the muzzle. If I had an 8.5 twist I’d be looking at 130’s. The 130 Game Changers shoot as well as match bullets out of my rifle and it’s a much “ tougher” bullet.

 

[ImBillT]

I ordered the Berger elite hunters 140 grn and some Lapua scenar 139 grn. I will test them out before using them on any critters.

How do you plan to test them? Not knocking it at all, just curious. I’ve been told that Scenar jackets are closer in thickness to the target Bergers. Early on Berger claimed that their target bullets sometimes worked fine, and sometimes failed to expand, and acted more like an FMJ.

 

[ImBillT]

I’ve killed a couple antelope and several deer with 140 Berger Hybids out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. Kills were instant, but both are easy to kill. That’s about the size limit animal I would use that bullet on.
24” 8 twist Krieger, bullets going 2650 at the muzzle. If I had an 8.5 twist I’d be looking at 130’s. The 130 Game Changers shoot as well as match bullets out of my rifle and it’s a much “ tougher” bullet.

I killed an elk with a 140gr Elite Hunter...it wasn’t a great shot, but the bullet did everything that could have been asked of any bullet...frankly I’m not so sure any other bullet would have been as effective.

Also, I shoot an 8.5” twist, and it shoots 156gr Bergers just great.

 

[huronmtns]

I killed an elk with a 140gr Elite Hunter...it wasn’t a great shot, but the bullet did everything that could have been asked of any bullet...frankly I’m not so sure any other bullet would have been as effective.

Also, I shoot an 8.5” twist, and it shoots 156gr Bergers just great.

For clarity, what are your thoughts behind that statement?

 

[ImBillT]

For clarity, what are your thoughts behind that statement?

The elk was gut shot and traveled about 50yds, bedded, let me walk within 20’-30’ and shoot it again. I gut shot a running pig with a 185 VLD from a .308 and it didn’t even take a step. I’ve gut shot three other animals with Noslers...I collected them all, but none of them worked out as well...not even close.

I’m not gonna claim with 100% certainty than some other bullet couldn’t do that, but I don’t think a different bullet could possibly have done any better.

Every lung hit I’ve had with Bergers other than the first ones that I had pointed in a die(Berger told me to quit doing that) has dropped the animal faster than any bullet I’ve ever used or seen.

 

[ImBillT]

Bergers were/are match bullets Bill. But at sometime the boxes changed colors, and the word "hunting" was added. Instant hunting bullet. mtmuley

I agree. Some folks shot some game animals with VLDs, and probably should not have. They wanted Berger to sponsor them and sent Berger some videos. At the time Berger had also been dealing with bullets that didn’t make it all the way to the target. To solve the mid-air blowup issue they created the “VLD-thick” and were marketing it for high velocity cartridges with tight twisted barrels. They started testing their original VLD’s and the VLD-thick on ballistic gel and found that the VLD-thick wasn’t very reliable. They then changed the label and boxes to VLD-Hunting and VLD-Target. Now they have other bullet styles within the “hunting“ thickness and “target“ thickness. Nonetheless, Berger’s hunting bullets are tested and recommended by the manufacturer for hunting. Other “match” bullets are not. Bergers “Hunting” bullets are also different from their “Target” bullets. It’s not just the label. I was very reluctant to try Bergers on game, but finally did after other folks had for quite a few years. I had primarily shot Nosler’s on game before that, and used Bergers on paper.

I don’t get anything from Berger(now owned by the same company that owns Lapua). I’ve been shooting Bergers on paper since before Walt sold it to the guys who left Sierra. There’s a bench at our shooting club that was donated by Walt. Unless my timeline is wrong, Walt sold it before Berger ever recommended a bullet for hunting.

When Walt got started, he would trade you boxes of bullets in the middle of a match to prove that he trusted the bullets he sold you just as much as he trusted the bullets he was shooting. For those that don’t know, short range benchrest shooters load between relays. That has nothing to do with hunting, but Walt was a class act. The J-4 guys were too.

 

[1_pointer]

“Match bullets” is too broad of a brush to say yes or no on IMO. I gladly hang my hat on 139 scenars but that’s about the only one I trust across all species.
I’d probably pass on the a-max and eld match, even though I’ve killed deer, antelope, and elk with them. The 147 eldm is a functional factory option as a backup. I’ve also killed deer with the 136 scenar but likely won’t use it again. You’d have a hard time convincing me that SMKs are a good place to start.
For the typical situation and user, hunting specific bullets are certainly going to be the best choice. If you’re going to experiment with other options, I’d start and probably end with the 139 scenar personally. They’re harder than 140 hunting bergers in my experience.

I concur with the 139gr Scenario recommendation.

 

[std7mag]

Walt actually did use his VLD for hunting before he sold/passed.
One of his better known friends (i can't remember his name off the bat) brought up to him that it had better terminal performance, and accuracy, than anything out there.
Walt didn't take his word for it& joined him on a couple of hunts.
Hence the original VLD became their hunting bullet.
Having used them, i'll attest to their terminal performance being spectacular!
They do exactly as advertised!

But on that same note, pretty much everybody makes a bullet that will work for you.
I'm particularly fond of the Ballistic Tip, Accubond Long Range, and Cutting Edge bullets.

 

[Jbotto]

I don't even have the gun put together yet. Most of the parts are at the house. With the unreliability of finding some of the components of reloading I want to try to get something that is going to be available most of the time. It's so frustrating to get something worked up and go to get more and no one has it.

I’m not a huge advocate of panic buying. I like my reloading because once I find a load that works, I put away enough components when they pop up on sale to weather any panic-buying storm. Availability is nice when you’re in a pinch for something but the long game of having enough components to shoot your favorite loads for a year or two is better. It also helps when your bullet all of a sudden is discontinued and you don’t want to change your load at the last minute. Ask all the people who used to shoot Amax’s about that, and I bet they will tell tales of having to redo their favorite loads.

 

[mtmuley]

John Burns and Best Of The West tv are responsible for the Berger craze. mtmuley

 

[Deleted member 16014]

John Burns and Best Of The West tv are responsible for the Berger craze. mtmuley

Somewhere on 24hour there is a great thread with Burns and Jerry Seinfeld side-by-by-side pics. The resemblance is amazing.

 

[mtmuley]

Somewhere on 24hour there is a great thread with Burns and Jerry Seinfeld side-by-by-side pics. The resemblance is amazing.

I started watching BOTW when it first came out. It wasn't too bad at first. John Porter did some decent shows also. That guy seemed to know sheep. mtmuley

 

[choc dogs]

Bergers were/are match bullets Bill. But at sometime the boxes changed colors, and the word "hunting" was added. Instant hunting bullet. mtmuley

I’ve got little experience with Berger’s. Loaded them for my son’s Swede, 140 elite hunters at just over 2600. Medium sized muley buck at 125. Never exited, but the largest piece I found weighed 68 gr. My sample of one says there are much better bullets available.

 

[cahunter805]

I’ve got little experience with Berger’s. Loaded them for my son’s Swede, 140 elite hunters at just over 2600. Medium sized muley buck at 125. Never exited, but the largest piece I found weighed 68 gr. My sample of one says there are much better bullets available.

Are exit holes needed to kill an animal? Did you find the buck?

 

[cahunter805]

For anyone wanting to try a Berger for hunting I recommend using the heaviest for caliber bullet your twist rate will allow.