Make a new draw system from scratch.

[Hircine]

Let's say a new state was made and you are given a blank canvas to create a whole new draw system from scratch for residents and nonresidents. Tell me what your system would be and how it would work.

 

[brownbear932008]

Simple it would be fair and basically resemble Idaho's system minus the 3k dollar big three tags.Straight draw, no points, fees up front, and pick your animal big three OIL, 90/10 separate pools R/NR.

 

[Hircine]

Simple it would be fair and basically resemble Idaho's system minus the 3k dollar big three tags.Straight draw, no points, fees up front, and pick your animal big three OIL, 90/10 separate pools R/NR.

How much would residents and nonresidents pay?

 

[ImBillT]

Random. 3-5 choices. NM does things almost perfectly, they just don’t have the supply that some other states do.

I honestly think most states can handle some form of 85/15. Everyone acts like almost everywhere is 90/10, but that’s not true. AZ has no NR cap for limited opportunity. NM gives 16% of draw tags to NRs, even though residents have access to the 10% outfitter pool, the outfitter pool has lower odds than residents, so residents don’t get in it. UT does 90/10 but rounds up at .5, so hunts with 5 tags have 1 NR. ID, MT, and WY all have general tags that aren’t part of the R/NR split. Basically residents of various states hear something about 90/10 and then start screaming about how their state should do that, when most of the time that resident has opportunities that are nearly 100%.

 

[ImBillT]

How much would residents and nonresidents pay?

NR’s would pay 5X R’s if I was in charge. Some states are practically giving away tags to residents.

If 10-15% of tags go to NRs, and NRs pay 5X, then they still account for 50%+ of the tag revenue to keep their voice, but aren’t giving residents “free” tags, aren’t pricing NRs out of PUBLIC HUNTING OPPORTUNITY the way it would at 10X+. I’m surprised how much CO charges a resident and how little MT charges a resident.

I can see how buying tags for all your kids could add up fast. Give resident youth the cheap tag, and keep the resident adult tag at 1/5 the NR price.

 

[WildWill]

All random with extreme demand tags being once in a lifetime (like sheep) and high demand (best elk, deer, etc. have a wait period after drawing. 90/10 seems to be the industry standard for tag allocation. As for price resident tags do need to increase but you're smoking some good stuff if you think price should be the same for R and NR. Why do you think you should pay the same for a Wyoming deer tag as a Resident other then that's how you'd like it? Hunting other states isn't a right but a privilege. Attitudes like this will lead to less NR tags not more.

 

[ImBillT]

All random with extreme demand tags being once in a lifetime (like sheep) and high demand (best elk, deer, etc. have a wait period after drawing. 90/10 seems to be the industry standard for tag allocation. As for price resident tags do need to increase but you're smoking some good stuff if you think price should be the same for R and NR. Why do you think you should pay the same for a Wyoming deer tag as a Resident other then that's how you'd like it? Hunting other states isn't a right but a privilege. Attitudes like this will lead to less NR tags not more.

I don’t think 90/10 as common as people assume.

100% accurate. We have to pay enough to be valuable. I also don’t think NR prices should be geared toward pricing people out. There’s a balance.

 

[TheTone]

Duplicate Idaho except a one year wait period on either sex tags, 2 year wait period on antlered tags, no work arounds for once in a lifetime tags (super hunt, raffle or auction tags are your once), put a wait limit on landowner tags (1 year if the landowner keeps it, multiple years if they transfer it including to the person that acquires it)

 

[BuzzH]

Random. 3-5 choices. NM does things almost perfectly, they just don’t have the supply that some other states do.

I honestly think most states can handle some form of 85/15. Everyone acts like almost everywhere is 90/10, but that’s not true. AZ has no NR cap for limited opportunity. NM gives 16% of draw tags to NRs, even though residents have access to the 10% outfitter pool, the outfitter pool has lower odds than residents, so residents don’t get in it. ID, MT, and WY all have general tags that aren’t part of the R/NR split. Basically residents of various states hear something about 90/10 and then start screaming about how their state should do that, when most of the time that resident has opportunities that are nearly 100%.

Arizona has an "up to 10%" NR cap...

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t think 90/10 as common as people assume.

100% accurate. We have to pay enough to be valuable. I also don’t think NR prices should be geared toward pricing people out. There’s a balance.

I think you need to put the bong down...90-10 of some form is pretty common.

 

[ImBillT]

Arizona has an "up to 10%" NR cap...

But it doesn’t apply to limited opportunity, OTC, population management. You could be hunting elk in AZ right now. They had a population management hunt with TONS of tags, and over 60% success.

 

[ImBillT]

I think you need to put the bong down...90-10 of some form is pretty common.

Name all the western states that do it, and then remove those with loopholes.

 

[44hunter45]

@Hircine - Like Idaho, but NR's can only apply when Secunda turns red.

 

[BuzzH]

Name all the western states that do it, and then remove those with loopholes.

Idaho, Montana, Arizona, Oregon, Wyoming big 5, Colorado sheep, moose, goat, North Dakota, north Dakota moose and sheep 0 tags, South Dakota sheep/elk, Nebraska elk/ sheep...

Do I need to go on?

Almost a given more states are good by to go 90-10 for more species.

 

[8andcounting]

I’d charge NR’s 46x what R’s pay . Oh wait Montana already does that ….

 

[ImBillT]

Idaho, Montana, Arizona, Oregon, Wyoming big 5, Colorado sheep, moose, goat, North Dakota, north Dakota moose and sheep 0 tags, South Dakota sheep/elk, Nebraska elk/ sheep...

Do I need to go on?

Almost a given more states are good by to go 90-10 for more species.

Well if you would actually read you would know that I pointed out that ID, MT, WY give out general tags in the draw to NRs that are not a part of the split. Obviously you know WY only does that for the big 5, and that’s new, and was pushed by people screaming “everyone else is 90/10!”. Some of your others don’t do it for every species either.

Yes it’s almost a given that more states are going to go to 90/10. And the people pushing it will be screaming “everyone else is doing it!” the whole time. Resident draw odds will improve so little as a result that no one will notice. The state game agency will lose a ton of money. NRs and outfitters and private land owners will go to state legislatures for more private land tags. “I live here and you can’t have any of my tags!” is not going to work well for anyone in the long run.

 

[WildWill]

How much would residents and nonresidents pay?

Serious question would you pay $640 for your Resident Iowa deer tag?

 

[BuzzH]

Well if you would actually read you would know that I pointed out that ID, MT, WY give out general tags in the draw to NRs that are not a part of the 90/10 split. Obviously you know WY on does that for the big 5, and that’s new, was pushed by people screaming “everyone else is 90/10!”. Some of your others don’t do it for every species either.

Yes it’s almost a given that more states are going to go to 90/10. Any the people pushing it will be screaming “everyone else is doing it!” the whole time. Resident draw odds will improve so little as a result that no one will notice. The state game agency will lose a ton of money. NRs and will back outfitters and private land owners going to state legislatures for more private land tags. “I live here and you can’t have any of my tags!” is not going to work well for anyone in the long run.

What percent of tags do NRs get in Wyoming region G compared to Wyoming general tags for deer? How about general elk?

I think you need to look a little closer and sharpen that pencil.

 

[232401a]

I honestly think most states can handle some form of 85/15. Everyone acts like almost everywhere is 90/10, but that’s not true. AZ has no NR cap for limited opportunity. NM gives 16% of draw tags to NRs,

Huh? you must live somewhere with no tags any NR would want.

AZ is about as strict a 90/10 state as exists.
NM is a 6% NR DIY allocation state (10% outfitter allocation is BS – that doesn’t count as NR allocation…).
Oregon? 3-6% NR on many species
CA? 99.9% to 0.01% ratio on elk/sheep?
NV: very strict 90/10
ID & MT are strict 90/10 on the higher quality tags.
UT: Very strict 90/10 on quality tags
SD/ND/NE: 100/0 states on various species.
ME/VT/NH: all <10% NR

 

[Mallardsx2]

50-50 tag split R/NR
Cost would be the same for R and NR.

We can ALL suffer together.