Major Remington Recall

[Topgun 30-06]

Again, I'm not sure if I agree with it either just throwing it out there for discussion purposes. I just fear we are all gathering our pitchforks and torches and, unless I misread, the decision has not been finalized. Again, I am angry too but I find that gets me nowhere fast. I will have 7 to replace and all have functioned flawlessly for years. But I will change eventually with or without the recall.

As a question, and maybe it has already been adressed here, is the recall ALL 700`s or just the ones that the safety locked the bolt shut? I have heard a lot of discrepancies on this before.

The Judge has to accept the lawsuit settlement and then the recall will be put in place. Until then, to the best of my knowledge it's not really known how it will be handled by the company. Again, just because a person has one that has been working flawlessly for years does not mean that it won't misfire the next time you load it. That is what's scary because the situation can't be replicated when attempts are made to make them misfire. It just happens at random.

 

[6speed]

You are now using the media bias issue to try to justify Remington producing a defective product and it not only involves those who had family injured or die, but also a number in the five figures (at least 20,000) who had them misfire and nobody was in the line of fire. Please leave the media out of this and just admit that the rifles are defective and need fixing ASAP!

From the article you posted

The Pollard suit accused Remington and its owners of negligence, breach of warranty, unfair and deceptive trade practices, and fraudulent concealment—some of it involving the company's formal response to the 2010 CNBC documentary.

When a "documentary" is cited in a class action suit it's pretty hard to leave the media out. When I went to copy that I couldn't help but notice the headline about the financial troubles of Smith & Wesson. Seems CNBC has a soft spot for gun company stories right now.

Should Remington fix the triggers on the almost 8 million rifles no matter the cost involved? How about the triggers that have been modified or improperly maintained? What if that kind of move would force them to pack it in and close up shop? Before you decide on wether they are a POS company find out if any other company has contributed more to the Pittman Robertson fund.

 

[Mudranger1]

Just my two cents. But how in the hell does an argument such as this break out over a simple recall less than one week after the Montana season ended. Dang. Now Febuary or March I might be able to understand. Well probably not. I like my 700

 

[VAspeedgoat]

The Judge has to accept the lawsuit settlement and then the recall will be put in place. Until then, to the best of my knowledge it's not really known how it will be handled by the company. Again, just because a person has one that has been working flawlessly for years does not mean that it won't misfire the next time you load it. That is what's scary because the situation can't be replicated when attempts are made to make them misfire. It just happens at random.

I agree, thats why no matter what I will eventually change mine, just don't buy into the "I'll never buy remington" garbage, that mind was made up despite the issues at hand. Brand loyalty often breads loud voices if it helps their prior argument.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

From the article you posted

The Pollard suit accused Remington and its owners of negligence, breach of warranty, unfair and deceptive trade practices, and fraudulent concealment—some of it involving the company's formal response to the 2010 CNBC documentary.

When a "documentary" is cited in a class action suit it's pretty hard to leave the media out. When I went to copy that I couldn't help but notice the headline about the financial troubles of Smith & Wesson. Seems CNBC has a soft spot for gun company stories right now.

Should Remington fix the triggers on the almost 8 million rifles no matter the cost involved? How about the triggers that have been modified or improperly maintained? What if that kind of move would force them to pack it in and close up shop? Before you decide on wether they are a POS company find out if any other company has contributed more to the Pittman Robertson fund.

The media did not manufacture the defective rifles! They reported the facts presented by the plaintiffs in the lawsuits using the documents presented that were actually obtained from the files at the Remington headquarters. They also interviewed people that were involved with the misfires and even interviewed Mike Walker, the inventor. Yes, there is bias in the media, but to my knowledge they did not present anything false in that show.

In answer to your question, yes the company should fix or replace every single gun they manufactured that has that defective trigger in it just like they're doing with the current recall on the newer triggers that have a problem. If they had changed the trigger design when they first started production back in the 40s like Mike Walker wanted them to, it would have cost them 5 1/2 cents per rifle. One piece I read today said that Remington plans on reimbursing people that have already replaced the triggers and if by chance there are any out there that for some reason can't be fixed that they will offer coupons for another Remington firearm. This is really no different than a car manufacturer making a recall to fix something that potentially could injure or kill someone. The big difference is that the Federal Government can force a recall if a company won't do it voluntarily. There is no oversight on firearm production/safety issues here in the US and, therefore, it finally took this class action lawsuit to affect this settlement involving a recall. Finally, if the company ended up bankrupt, I guess it would be the consequence of not following proper business practices that should have corrected the situation 6 decades ago and your statement about contributions to the Pittman Robertson fund is so far out that it's not even worth a comment!

 

[jabber]

And now for the other side of the story.

http://www.remington.com/pages/news...s/remington correction of cnbc reporting.aspx

 

[mtlion]

It is unfortunate that there are some defective triggers out there. So does this mean that ANY company that has had ANY kind of falure is now a POS?
Phones, computers, vehicles, a shovel with broken handle, hammer that smashed my finger is unsafe, where does it end?

What makes them a POS company is the fact that they won't admit a problem with their product, a problem that can result in death. The reason they are POS is because they continue to lie and cover it up for decades. They won't get a red dime of mine, ever.

Now they are offering to fix everybody's rifles while still not admitting there is anything wrong with them...Hmmmm. If there is nothing wrong than why go through a recall and replace all those triggers?

From their own press release:

These settlements are not recalls.
These settlements are not any admission that the products are defective or unsafe.

This economic settlement provides an avenue for consumers, who have certain Remington rifles, to voluntarily have a new trigger installed. As noted by the Plaintiffs, the benefits provided by the settlement will not be in place until after court approval.



So why again if there's nothing wrong with them, and no wrong doing occurred, then why are they fixing these rifles?

I mean if it isn't broke don't fix it huh?

I'm waiting for full admission until then: POS!

 

[RobertR]

Mine are all vintage guns before the recall and have never had an issue.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Mine are all vintage guns before the recall and have never had an issue.

At first the news appeared to say that all Remington 700s and 7s made before 2006 would have the triggers replaced if the owner wanted it done. Now it appears that they may be talking about rifles made between 1962 and 2006 that have Walker triggers in them. If that's the case, they have lessened the number because it should go all the way back to the day they started making them in the late 40s, which would include what you are calling your "vintage" rifles. Until the settlement is approved by the Judge and the information actually comes out we'll just have to sit back and wait to see what years they agreed to fix and how they are going to do it.

That Remington release yesterday is basically nothing different that what has been posted by other sources, other than they are saying it is not classified as a recall. Call it whatever they want, but the company has agreed to replace a massive amount of rifle triggers for customers who want that done and from what I've read it sounds like they are also going to reimburse those that have already replaced the triggers with aftermarket ones. This entire debacle is their own fault for not taking care of the situation over the last 6 decades since the defect was found when the rifles first went into production. They finally figured out that this was not going to go away until they do what they should have done decades ago. I guess you can probably say this may be looked at as a voluntary type of situation for the customers and not a forced recall like the auto companies are sometimes compelled to do. The difference is that there is no Federal or State jurisdiction/oversight for firearms manufacturers like there is for autos and many other products that can injure or kill because of defects. Families in this instance were forced to go to court in a class action lawsuit to finally get the company to take care of this defect whether they want to call it a recall or not!

 

[Straight Arrow]

Mine are all vintage guns before the recall and have never had an issue.

RobertR

I purchased mine in 1971 and shot and hunted with it continuously since then. It misfired forty (40) years after purchase. It was modified with the $20 Remington safety fix, so now the bolt will open on "safe".

My question now which I hope Topgun or someone knowledgeable can answer is: Did that $20 modification of the safety which Remington subsidized completely eliminate this Walker trigger safety issue for my rifle?

 

[Gr8bawana]

What makes them a POS company is the fact that they won't admit a problem with their product, a problem that can result in death. The reason they are POS is because they continue to lie and cover it up for decades. They won't get a red dime of mine, ever.
So why again if there's nothing wrong with them, and no wrong doing occurred, then why are they fixing these rifles?
I mean if it isn't broke don't fix it huh?
I'm waiting for full admission until then: POS


So do any of you out there own a GM vehicle, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Dodge? Every one of these has had a recall on something that did and could have caused loss of life or injuries.
Does that mean you won't ever buy one of these vehicles and get rid of any you already haave?
I think not

 

[RobertR]

RobertR

I purchased mine in 1971 and shot and hunted with it continuously since then. It misfired forty (40) years after purchase. It was modified with the $20 Remington safety fix, so now the bolt will open on "safe".

My question now which I hope Topgun or someone knowledgeable can answer is: Did that $20 modification of the safety which Remington subsidized completely eliminate this Walker trigger safety issue for my rifle?

Mine is the same vintage as you're 1971 and the others are newer and my sons are even newer yet and neither of us have ever had a safety issue or any of them discharging without pulling the trigger.

The only malfunction if you want to call it that is the firing pin not working because of extreme cold -30 degrees

 

[Straight Arrow]

neither of us have ever had a safety issue or any of them discharging without pulling the trigger.

Nor I for forty years ... until one day when a round was chambered upon seeing elk, but then not having a good shot, after hiking back down to my vehicle I opened the bolt to remove the chambered round and the rifle misfired. The next week I took the rifle in for the $20 modification repair.

I still want to know if the modification of the safety will eliminate the potential Walker trigger safety issue.

 

[sbhooper]

I had some issues with a 6mm, but found out it was because there was heavy grease/dirt in the mechanism that was freezing up and causing problems. Other than that, I have had no problems with my 700 or 600. If I was worried, I would not deal with the company and get a lawyer trigger put on it. I would go to a Timney and be done with it.

I have a Rem 700 that I bought in 2011 and have had no problems. The gun shoots incredibly well, but does feel much cheaper than the old guns.

I would look real hard at a Ruger American if I was looking for a hunting rifle.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I don't know how many times I've read the same thing I'm hearing on this thread with people coming on and saying: "well, it hasn't happened to me in (plug in years they had gun)"! Guys, that is the whole problem with this defect and it needs to be taken seriously. The problem cannot be replicated even if a particular gun has actually had a misfire. It just happens at random depending on whether that independent connector that is called "the Fire Control" doesn't go back into the proper position. It is not needed, is the only trigger of it's type that has ever been made, and Remington eliminated it in 2006. I have no idea if the $20 "fix" being talked about that Remington did on some to allow the bolt to be opened while the safety is in the safe position will eliminate the problem completely or not, but the way Remington has denied the actual problem even exists for over 6 decades I'd put an aftermarket trigger in it and know the problem is gone for good. A Timney is probably the cheapest one to put in and it's easy to do yourself if you can follow some simple instructions. A Jewell that costs quite a bit more can also be done at home or you can have a reputable gunsmith put either of them in. In any event, I agree with the previous post and would not waste a lot of time going through Remington for a fix. I also agree with him that Ruger makes good stuff and IMHO the American is a great rifle for the price.

 

[6speed]

The media did not manufacture the defective rifles! They reported the facts
...
your statement about contributions to the Pittman Robertson fund is so far out that it's not even worth a comment!

CNBC has already revised their story do I'm not sure using the word fact in describing their reporting is a wise choice.

My statement about contributions to the PR act fund are not off base when one of if not the largest contributor over time is threatened by would could be no more than a wing nut witch hunt. According to the last story published by CNBC the so called new recall may in fact, and I use the word fact very loosely, actually be getting the judge to sign off on the previous recall started in April as meeting the terms of the settlement.

 

[6speed]

Here are the facts according to the published settlement agreement from the Pollard vs. Remington case.

Settlement class members must submit a claim form thereby becoming members of the mediated settlement. This means if you want to join the suit and receive some form of restitution you can but there will not be a formal recall.
Notice of this suit will be published in several outdoors and shooting magazines and through other forms of notification including internet postings and social media.

If you join the suit you well be placed in one of two classes depending on your firearm. Class A will include firearms manufactured without an X Mark pro trigger including Model 700, 7, 78, 673, 710, 715, 770, 600, 660, XP-100, 721, 722 and 725 firearms. Class B includes owners of model 700 and model 7 rifles from the previous recall timeframe and owners of older rifles that were converted to the Xmark trigger during the previous recall timeframe.

Class A will be broken up as follows.
(a) Owners of models 700, 7, 78 and 673 will be able to have the Walker trigger removed and an X Mark pro installed.
(b) Owners of models 710, 715, and 770 with a Walker style trigger will be able to have a new model 770 trigger installed.
(c) Owners of models 600, 660, XP-100, 721 and 725 will be eligible to receive either a $10 or $12.50 Remington coupon.

Class B is broken into 2 parts
(a) Owners of X Mark pro equipped rifles that are eligible for the current X Mark recall (excess lubricant)

(b) Owners who had their Walker triggers replaced with X Mark pro triggers at their own cost will be eligible for a refund not to exceed $119.

There is no benefit for anyone who upgraded to a trigger other than the X Mark pro listed in the settlement.

All settlement members who submit a claim will also be provided with an instructional DVD regarding safe firearms handling practices.

It's still up to the judge to finalize it but in a nut shell if you have a Class A (a) or (b) rifle you can join the lawsuit and get a new trigger.

 

[danr55]

Just for curiosity, how many people have been shot and killed or wounded by the terrible trigger problem? I've owned between 20 and 30 Remington 700's or model 7's over the years and never had one "go off" or misfire or anything else without direct cause. I did see the tv show be the design engineer who had his retirement cancelled because he violated a court order...

 

[Topgun 30-06]

CNBC has already revised their story do I'm not sure using the word fact in describing their reporting is a wise choice.

My statement about contributions to the PR act fund are not off base when one of if not the largest contributor over time is threatened by would could be no more than a wing nut witch hunt. According to the last story published by CNBC the so called new recall may in fact, and I use the word fact very loosely, actually be getting the judge to sign off on the previous recall started in April as meeting the terms of the settlement.

First off, I was discussing the documentary done several years ago and not the quick piece that came out last Friday. It's hard to change facts when all the paperwork referred to on that piece was right out of the files at Remington and brought out in the various court cases along with interviews with people that had misfires! Your PR statement certainly has nothing to do with these recalls and when you say Remington is a huge contributor you use that word very loosely and actually falsely. PR is funded by taxes on sporting goods and the company does not contribute SQUAT to that fund, although taxes on the millions of rifles and other products they sell do go to that fund. Your continuing reference to the media as biased and that they are on a witch hunt may be partially true, but Remington brought this all on themselves when they didn't listen to Mike Walker, their employee and inventor of the defective trigger, when he told them they needed to change the design because of misfires that started cropping up very soon after production commenced back in the 40s. The media is not who sued Remington in all those cases dealing with injuries and deaths. How they report things also doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the triggers Remington has been putting in products for decades are faulty and the problems should have been taken care of properly many years ago. If there was Federal oversight of firearm safety like there is on autos and other items that can injure or kill someone, this issue would have had a forced recall a long time ago the way Remington continued to deny a problem existed, instead of what is now going on through the class action lawsuit that citizens had to start to pressure the company to get a resolution. If they aren't really issuing a major recall, IMHO they are still shirking their responsibility and trying to cut their losses as much as possible even though we're talking about injuries and deaths that still may happen.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Just for curiosity, how many people have been shot and killed or wounded by the terrible trigger problem? I've owned between 20 and 30 Remington 700's or model 7's over the years and never had one "go off" or misfire or anything else without direct cause. I did see the tv show be the design engineer who had his retirement cancelled because he violated a court order...

Over two dozen deaths, numerous injuries that I don't believe have ever been counted for an exact total, and over 20,000 misfires when the misfire didn't result in anything but a bang at the wrong time. The latter figure could be low because I've read a lot of posts on sites over the last five years by guys saying the misfire happened to them and was never reported because they didn't know about the problem or what to do about it. You're just one of many that have made the "it's never happened to me...", but the fact is that the trigger is defective. It sounds like from the way you worded that sentence that you have had some misfires yourself. Would you care to comment on them? Yes, Mike Walker had his retirement cut because he came out and told the real story of the trigger issue contrary to a court order that Remington had that said to keep quiet about it. However, I don't think he gave a shit about the order because he was in his late 90s at the time and just died last year at 101. I'd also bet that he died with a clear conscience on the issue after speaking out!