Losing the Family Farm

[Derek44]

Hmmm , sure looks like you called me a dick ? You could've worded it much different , but I really don't care and I'm not upset . I am sorry about your situation , just thought I'd try to get you to see the big picture .
Hope it works out well for you , and your parents .
Good luck .

I guess in your initial response, in not trying to sound like a dick

Not to sound like a dick , but maybe it's time you started finding your own piece of land to hunt .

You failed miserably

Maybe instead of him wording things differently, you should look in the mirror. It was his thread that you just as easily could have passed over but hmmmmmm. You didn’t want to sound like a dick

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Have them gift it to you as their 1 time tax exemption as inheritance? You pay for their long term care?

 

[Steiny77]

I went through the same thing many years ago. Borrowed a bunch of money, got in over my head, moved out of a nice home we were living in into the crummy old farmhouse and barely scraped by the first couple years making the payments. Time went on, income increased, it's long since paid for and the home is fully remodeled just like a new house. Buying that farm and raising the kids here was one of the wiser things I've done and has been an awesome long term investment. Bought the original 100 acres in 1990 for $75k and it's probably worth close to 10X that now.

Since then we've added about 300 more acres of farm ground, some adjoining and some not. We've gotten income from cash renting ground for row crops, logging and CRP programs. Some of the CRP stuff pays better than farming and plays into exactly what I want the property for, which is primarily recreation and hunting. If you can pull it off, ground is a great long term investment and a safe place to put your $$. It's also pretty easy to sell and turn into cash rather quickly if necessary.

We're early 60's and neither of our kids live nearby so we will be facing some of the same decisions your parents now are, at some point in the not too distant future.

Glad you could work out a deal. Good luck !

 

[huntnfisher]

Good luck!

 

[Jwill]

This thread reinforces how important estate and long term care planning is.

 

[squirrel]

This thread reinforces how important estate and long term care planning is.

And how difficult psychologically it is to get done. Nobody ever wants to take that final step until well within the 5 year liability window, and all of a sudden "shit I'm 90 and dont feel real good" maybe I should set up a trust...

Also brings up Dave Ramseys' input on family farms/land/houses, take the sentiment out of it. If you fell into a hole that had X$ in it (in this case $400K) would you rush to MN and buy 160 acres of farm with a house?

I just had to call 'ol Daves' logic into use recently, after applying it, the trees are being cut now and sale sign goes up as soon as the logs are stacked ready for hauling. Sentiment be damned I don't want to go back east where they have the least.

And never, EVER, EVER, do a partnership with anyone other than your wife and even that is a bit suspect, unless she is super hot, older than you with a multi-generation pattern of dying early, and you take title as joint tenants.

Take this X10 if one partner is close by and the other not, which is what you are contemplating, your table is set for nothing but discord from day one.

If you simply must have this farm buy the damn thing, get your wife that second job... IT'S A LAZY MAN CAN'T GET HIS WIFE THAT SECOND JOB!

Once it is yours be a good son, let your folks stay there rent free until they can do so no longer. If they croak next week you get a proportionate share of your $ back. If they spend it all you have a place to hunt.

 

[SFC B]

I feel for you and your family. I have a bit of a different perspective but I think there is a little in common in our outlooks. This is gonna be a bit long, so anyone with a short attention span ....check out now

When I was little we lived in the suburbs of Indianapolis in a small 3 bed brick place on about 3/4 of an acre that backed up to a couple hundreds acres of woods that ran along a creek over into Ft Harrison.My grandparents lived in Warren, MI on a thin, deep 5 acres that was 4 acres of woods with a seasonal pond and fruit trees. When I was 8 my parents divorced and the next 7 years found me in apartments with my mom and the POS she married all over the Eastern half of the US. When I was 15 she died and I had to go live back in Indy, in the ghetto, with my dad and the POS HE married. That place never felt like home and I always longed for the roots of a single place where my family was "from" to return to.

As time went on my grandparents got to old to live by themselves and sold their place to live with my uncle. At the same time I found out my grandmother had had a 7 acre piece in Putnam County (had it long before I was even born) that was being sold. I was fresh out of college and had no way to finance that so both of those pieces were gone. To add a little insult to injury I find out that my dad had an uncle, whom he had never even mentioned (turns out he had 6 and I met 2), that lived outside Shelbyville. Why does this matter? In the somewhat infancy of my interwebs dabbling I found a farm with my family name on it in Shelby County......as IT was being sold.

Fast forward to today and I am trying to find a spot to fulfill my desire for a "place" and to build something for HOPEFULLY future generations. As much as I love being in CO it will never replace the Midwest as the fiber of me. The prices of land in Indiana make it highly unlikely I can do it there but WI and MI (I do have family in MI) hold promise for differing reasons.

If I were you I would do everything within my power to hold onto that place. As someone who has struggled to find a sense of belonging since childhood I find it priceless........almost mystical. I hope that there is a solution that is right for your entire family and retains a legacy.

 

[David Gough]

150k down, loan for the rest. Seller financed if you both can pay what they need per month. Put the property into an LLC and file a Form 1065. Lease the property for whatever activities support your needs. Take the depreciation every year (assuming a purchase price that isn't all allocated to land) and reduce your tax liability.

 

[MtsPSU]

I found out yesterday that my dad (and hunting mentor) listed the family farm with a real estate agent and there is a "For Sale" sign in the front yard. The farm is located in North-Central Minnesota and has been in the family since 1980. I shot my first buck that year at age 13.

Over the past 42 years, I estimate that my older brother and I have spent over 1,000 nights there each. Mowing grass, planting food plots, building deer stands, mending fences and pouring my blood, sweat, and tears into making it an amazing property and and true gem! We have transformed the property into a real hunting paradise. Our family and friends have harvested over 100 whitetail deer, 20+ black bear, several turkeys, and untold numbers of ducks, geese, and grouse. My 13 year old son shot his first buck there last fall.

The property is 160 acres, has 4 food plots, trails throughout, and 4 or 5 ponds. The property is basically "landlocked" to the point that I have never seen an outside hunter in over 40 years.

I'm posting this in hopes that I can draw on all of your collective knowledge and experience. HOW DO I KEEP THE FARM IN THE FAMILY?

My parents are both in their 80's with declining health. They need the money to afford long-term care and I totally understand that those things are way more important. Unfortunately, I live 1,000 miles away in Colorado. My boy and I travel to Minnesota every summer for a couple of weeks to do chores, chop wood, build treestands, etc. We then travel a second time during hunting season. Last year I spent 20 nights in the farmhouse.

Any brainstorming? What do you think about finding a few investors to own "a part" of a hunting lodge with hunting rights? Sell leases?Some kind of partnership? I believe the property is listed at 400k and my brother and I can scrape together about 75 each. There is probably an additional 10k in annual expenses. The farmhouse is 45 years old, has foundation problems, and probably needs 10k in improvements over the next year or two. The house is nothing special and ultimately may need to be replaced. The real value is the HUNTING LAND!!

ANY THOUGHTS?

Owner finance at 4% with 20-25 percent down. I just did this on an investment property and it’s a win-win. You’re going to regret not making every effort to buy the place. Pay your folks a monthly installment payment and let them stay in the place for as long as they’re able and have an interest. Also, meet with a reputable estate planning attorney to discuss putting their estate into a trust and you make payments to the trust.

Good luck.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

By the "north of mille lacs" description, I don't imagine the property being a big whitetail mecca but I could see it being a place where family can gather, see plenty of deer, and have fun getting in the woods. For those looking at it as some primo free private land hunting spot, If I lived in CO I am highly doubtful i'd value property in this area based on it being a place to hunt or for quality hunting. I'd rather hunt public in CO or most any state touching CO from a purely quality of hunting experience angle. However, there is value in tradition, family time spent over the decades, and hours of labor spent to make the place what you want it to be. I could see that land contributing a lot to facilitating time with family that otherwise would be harder to come by.

@Thegreatwapiti - Curious how this turned / is turning out? Did they pull the listing? Even with interest rates, good properties priced fair are still selling quick.

 

[NoWiser]

I was faced with this same situation when my grandpa died a few years ago. All of my aunts and uncles wanted to sell. I saved the land through CREP with a conservation easement. I’m not sure if that’s available in your part of the state. I’m south of the metro. It’s been 3 stressful years of getting everything done, but worth every minute of my time spent. Best of luck. It’s a hard situation. I had weeks of sleepless nights.

 

[KB_]

Luckily I will avoid this situation. My dad has deeded all of our farm to myself and my son. Farm has been in the family for 120 years. The original farm was sold off 80-90 years ago that was in the family since the 1800s. Was sold off to keep the current farm of 120 years as it was the profitable piece of land at the time and they were trying to survive the great depression. That plot of land was sold to another "farmer" and essentially turned into an empty field and is now parceled out into housing developments, which is sad.

My dad currently rents the ag ready fields on the current farm to cover the property taxes and we plan to keep it in the family for at least as long as I'm alive. The amount of work it takes to keep a large plot of land intact is incredible. Every cockroach will show up at your door (family included) and its a constant battle. I've had plenty of family and (friends) who caught wind of me taking the property try to sell me on parceling it out and building houses. True nature of people comes out when money is involved, even if you didnt ask for it.

Be prepared for that, its coming.

 

[buckbull]

If you do end up buying it with your brother and possibly others I would recommend setting up an LLC to take ownership and create a really good operating agreement on how it's going to be run. You'll also need to make sure the succession planning is done really well. Who takes over if you or your brother die? I know it should be far in advance but the better it's spelled out in writing the better chance it will stay enjoyable longer.

I've seen several families get torn apart by bad partnerships so be careful not to let that happen. You guys may try to get it and not have it work out. That's OK, don't let it get in the way of any relationships.

Good luck.

My dad bought 200 acres with 3 friends. When the original owners started to die off it created a nightmare because nothing was ever done for succession. Between the 4 original owners there were wives, 14 children (and their spouses) that potentially owned that property. Luckily the surviving owners were able to get together and divide the property into 50 acre chunks for each family. It was a big miracle this worked out with so many folks involved. Our 50 acres is owned by a trust. I am the executor and my sister is part of the trust; so we both own it. Succession wise it goes to my children since my sister did not have children so that was pretty easy too. I am very lucky things turned out this way. If this turned into an issue; a lawsuit could have been filed and a judgement could have been made that we had to sell the property.

Taking the advice mentioned earlier; make sure you get a lawyer that addresses all issues involved. Death, foreclosure, first right to buy others out, etc...

 

[VikingsGuy]

My dad bought 200 acres with 3 friends. When the original owners started to die off it created a nightmare because nothing was ever done for succession. Between the 4 original owners there were wives, 14 children (and their spouses) that potentially owned that property. Luckily the surviving owners were able to get together and divide the property into 50 acre chunks for each family. It was a big miracle this worked out with so many folks involved. Our 50 acres is owned by a trust. I am the executor and my sister is part of the trust; so we both own it. Succession wise it goes to my children since my sister did not have children so that was pretty easy too. I am very lucky things turned out this way. If this turned into an issue; a lawsuit could have been filed and a judgement could have been made that we had to sell the property.

Taking the advice mentioned earlier; make sure you get a lawyer that addresses all issues involved. Death, foreclosure, first right to buy others out, etc...

I agree - owning in a pure common law partnership without contractual rules on all the issues around maintenance costs, improvements, rights to use, rights to sell, etc. is a complete recipe for disaster. A simple LLC and a solid Operating Agreement, is worth its weight in gold.

 

[SO7mm]

My dad bought 200 acres with 3 friends. When the original owners started to die off it created a nightmare because nothing was ever done for succession. Between the 4 original owners there were wives, 14 children (and their spouses) that potentially owned that property. Luckily the surviving owners were able to get together and divide the property into 50 acre chunks for each family. It was a big miracle this worked out with so many folks involved. Our 50 acres is owned by a trust. I am the executor and my sister is part of the trust; so we both own it. Succession wise it goes to my children since my sister did not have children so that was pretty easy too. I am very lucky things turned out this way. If this turned into an issue; a lawsuit could have been filed and a judgement could have been made that we had to sell the property.

Taking the advice mentioned earlier; make sure you get a lawyer that addresses all issues involved. Death, foreclosure, first right to buy others out, etc...

My great grandfather, his 3 brothers, and 4 brothers in-law bought a 600 acre island here in the lower Sacramento River Delta in the 1940's for duck hunting and family weekends. We no longer hunt there and, thankfully, the state bought the majority of the property but my brothers and I own 1/4 of what's left. There's now 9 other owners of the remaining 3/4, 8 of which we would never chose to be partners with. If we had better succession wording in the by-laws/operating agreements it would have made a big difference.

 

[Thegreatwapiti]

I am on a plane right now, traveling to Minnesota to purchase half of the family farm!

The property consists of two, 80-acre plots. The east property contains the farmhouse, 2 pole barns, and is completely interconnected with trails. My parents are selling that property for 300k.

The west property is 80 acres of unimproved forest land. We are purchasing the west forest land for 100k. My brother and I will be forming an llc to purchase the land and setting up a buy-sell agreement so we don't end up being partners with each other's spouses or extended family.

We are actually buying the property for 35k (the original purchase price) and 65k for all of the equipment. This allows my parents to avoid capital gains. We plan on immediately pouring a concrete slab and having a steel garage installed. We will frame out a small part of the garage for a short-term (3-5 years) living space. This will give us time to design and build our permanent cabin. Almost all of the lumber will be sourced from the new property!

Thanks to everyone for your kind words! I have attached a photo of the new property. PEACE

 

[buckbull]

Congrats on the new purchase. Sounds like everyone involved are coming away with what they wanted.

 

[Southern Elk]

Great news. I know you probably wish you could buy it all, but it’s smart to not get saddled with extra debt and the aging farmhouse.

 

[MtsPSU]

I am on a plane right now, traveling to Minnesota to purchase half of the family farm!

The property consists of two, 80-acre plots. The east property contains the farmhouse, 2 pole barns, and is completely interconnected with trails. My parents are selling that property for 300k.

The west property is 80 acres of unimproved forest land. We are purchasing the west forest land for 100k. My brother and I will be forming an llc to purchase the land and setting up a buy-sell agreement so we don't end up being partners with each other's spouses or extended family.

We are actually buying the property for 35k (the original purchase price) and 65k for all of the equipment. This allows my parents to avoid capital gains. We plan on immediately pouring a concrete slab and having a steel garage installed. We will frame out a small part of the garage for a short-term (3-5 years) living space. This will give us time to design and build our permanent cabin. Almost all of the lumber will be sourced from the new property!

Thanks to everyone for your kind words! I have attached a photo of the new property. PEACE

Well done! Congratulations!

 

[BAKPAKR]

It is definitely in the “Land of Lakes.” Congrats!