Losing the Family Farm

[westbranch]

North of Mille Lacs

Aitkin County? SWCD may have conservation easement funds available through the farm bill to help cash wise after the purchase. Depends on watershed property is located in. I have 100 acres in Carlton County and have been looking at conservation easements. They pay around 60% of tax assessed value.


I would be very hesitant to buy land with anyone else, including family. The land my wife and I own in MN borders land owned by my brother that has been in the family since 1895. I worried too much what was going on with the land and disagreements regarding hunting/management for several years. Finally said F it and moved 1,300 miles away. Can go back and visit and not worry about what's going on. If something happened where my brother decided to sell I am not going to be on the list of buyers. It would suck, but that's life sometimes.

 

[kansasdad]

I have no idea if it is done, but is possible to include trespass permission for the sons/family in the sale agreement?

 

[perma]

Let me add that I would not go outside of the family(you and your brother) unless I had to.

This. And even if I had to. Find cousins.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

If you can get them to finance it for you it can be beneficial to both parties. They can increase their take home and you could decrease your payment. You could also do a lease. This would give them income. It's shitty to say but at 80, you could inherit it before you spend the money on a loan.

 

[gburk]

They probably don’t need 400k right now so have them hold the note and just pay them on a schedule. roll the actuarial dice.

 

[Addicting]

I found out yesterday that my dad (and hunting mentor) listed the family farm with a real estate agent and there is a "For Sale" sign in the front yard. The farm is located in North-Central Minnesota and has been in the family since 1980. I shot my first buck that year at age 13.

Over the past 42 years, I estimate that my older brother and I have spent over 1,000 nights there each. Mowing grass, planting food plots, building deer stands, mending fences and pouring my blood, sweat, and tears into making it an amazing property and and true gem! We have transformed the property into a real hunting paradise. Our family and friends have harvested over 100 whitetail deer, 20+ black bear, several turkeys, and untold numbers of ducks, geese, and grouse. My 13 year old son shot his first buck there last fall.

The property is 160 acres, has 4 food plots, trails throughout, and 4 or 5 ponds. The property is basically "landlocked" to the point that I have never seen an outside hunter in over 40 years.

I'm posting this in hopes that I can draw on all of your collective knowledge and experience. HOW DO I KEEP THE FARM IN THE FAMILY?

My parents are both in their 80's with declining health. They need the money to afford long-term care and I totally understand that those things are way more important. Unfortunately, I live 1,000 miles away in Colorado. My boy and I travel to Minnesota every summer for a couple of weeks to do chores, chop wood, build treestands, etc. We then travel a second time during hunting season. Last year I spent 20 nights in the farmhouse.

Any brainstorming? What do you think about finding a few investors to own "a part" of a hunting lodge with hunting rights? Sell leases?Some kind of partnership? I believe the property is listed at 400k and my brother and I can scrape together about 75 each. There is probably an additional 10k in annual expenses. The farmhouse is 45 years old, has foundation problems, and probably needs 10k in improvements over the next year or two. The house is nothing special and ultimately may need to be replaced. The real value is the HUNTING LAND!!

ANY THOUGHTS?

Welcome to the club. It’s gets better after a few years.

 

[JLDemo]

Have you explored the cost of long term care near you or your brother? Maybe the collective money you and your brother have could buy a few or more years of care for your parents, refinance the property for whatever amount you need to cover your parents costs so long as the farm stays in the family?

Could you or your brother add your parents to your insurances? Maybe cut some of their costs down.

If your parents are eligible for veterans benefits, even if they've never explored it, it's worth a shot.

If it's a possibility, mineral rights could always be sold.

Rent the farm house for additional income?

Any equipment that could be sold or auctioned?

Energy companies are always looking for property to expand, radio towers and so, could explore that route.

No idea if any of these ideas are plausible, just thinking out loud, good luck.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Have them talk to Tom Selleck and do a reverse mortgage.

 

[smw110136]

I agree with the @gburk and @VAspeedgoat comments. $150,000 from you and your brother up front is going to provide a lot of immediate medical care. Then have your folks carry the note at 5% fixed on a 15 or 20-year amortization. They get a large cash down payment up front, plus money each month guaranteed by the terms of the loan for (more than likely) the rest of their lives. In the event you default, they can list the land and sell it to someone else. It’s a pretty safe option for your parents to get cash now, then additional monthly income for the future expenses.

A bank loan for a recreational property is going to be 7-8% so if they will work with you to privately finance, I’d go that route.

And I’d figure out whatever I could do to keep up with the payments on a new loan. Chances are, by the time you pay it off, it will have appreciated greatly in value, especially if you can piece together the money needed for repairs to the house and other improvements on the property. The investment to keep it in the family and grow its value is worth the extra monthly payment.

And not to be insensitive, but you may inherit (I don’t know the family dynamic obviously) the property before you’ve paid off the loan.

 

[stevejfarms]

I found out yesterday that my dad (and hunting mentor) listed the family farm with a real estate agent and there is a "For Sale" sign in the front yard. The farm is located in North-Central Minnesota and has been in the family since 1980. I shot my first buck that year at age 13.

Over the past 42 years, I estimate that my older brother and I have spent over 1,000 nights there each. Mowing grass, planting food plots, building deer stands, mending fences and pouring my blood, sweat, and tears into making it an amazing property and and true gem! We have transformed the property into a real hunting paradise. Our family and friends have harvested over 100 whitetail deer, 20+ black bear, several turkeys, and untold numbers of ducks, geese, and grouse. My 13 year old son shot his first buck there last fall.

The property is 160 acres, has 4 food plots, trails throughout, and 4 or 5 ponds. The property is basically "landlocked" to the point that I have never seen an outside hunter in over 40 years.

I'm posting this in hopes that I can draw on all of your collective knowledge and experience. HOW DO I KEEP THE FARM IN THE FAMILY?

My parents are both in their 80's with declining health. They need the money to afford long-term care and I totally understand that those things are way more important. Unfortunately, I live 1,000 miles away in Colorado. My boy and I travel to Minnesota every summer for a couple of weeks to do chores, chop wood, build treestands, etc. We then travel a second time during hunting season. Last year I spent 20 nights in the farmhouse.

Any brainstorming? What do you think about finding a few investors to own "a part" of a hunting lodge with hunting rights? Sell leases?Some kind of partnership? I believe the property is listed at 400k and my brother and I can scrape together about 75 each. There is probably an additional 10k in annual expenses. The farmhouse is 45 years old, has foundation problems, and probably needs 10k in improvements over the next year or two. The house is nothing special and ultimately may need to be replaced. The real value is the HUNTING LAND!!

ANY THOUGHTS?

Check with the local FSA office. 10 yr CRP contracts can run as high as $180/acre depending on your soil types and local cash rental rates. You retain ownership and all rights, you’ll have to plant any ground enrolled in whatever their prescription is in that area. (wildlife friendly)

 

[Werty]

Buy it from them, then rent it back to them so they don't have to move, a lifetime lease, they get there nest egg.

 

[seeth07]

Is the reason your parents are selling the property is to pay for their expenses due to medical reasons?

If so, you should absolutely find a way to purchase the property from them at the lowest cost possible. I just dealt with this through the passing of my grandma and the lawyer we worked with highly recommended that we purchase her home to remove it from her assets as she was really racking up the medical bills and they will take everything that person owns after the cash runs out. By removing the home at an extremely low price (home was likely worth 225-250k on the market and my parents bought it for 140k) it transferred that portion of her wealth to my parents before the medical bills could.

 

[Thegreatwapiti]

Thanks everyone....(even the dick)! We are making progress. Possibly setting up an llc to buy the property. Give parents 50k up front and a certain amount each month.

Making calls to a lawyer on Monday.

 

[Watts307]

Take 20 acres and do weddings.

Also Only Fans...

 

[SO7mm]

If you do end up buying it with your brother and possibly others I would recommend setting up an LLC to take ownership and create a really good operating agreement on how it's going to be run. You'll also need to make sure the succession planning is done really well. Who takes over if you or your brother die? I know it should be far in advance but the better it's spelled out in writing the better chance it will stay enjoyable longer.

I've seen several families get torn apart by bad partnerships so be careful not to let that happen. You guys may try to get it and not have it work out. That's OK, don't let it get in the way of any relationships.

Good luck.

 

[grizzly63]

Who is going to watch it if no one is around? It only takes one ratfink neighbor to mess up your plans.

 

[Thegreatwapiti]

My brother is local. I hate ratfinks.

 

[smw110136]

My brother is local. I hate ratfinks.

If you’ve got someone local to keep an eye on it and even with you in Colorado, you are able to utilize the property and farmhouse 20 days/nights a year, I’d do everything I could to keep it. Sounds like an amazing property that will provide a lot of memories for you in the future, just like it has for you in the past. It sounds like an amazing place.

 

[Addicting]

Not to sound like a dick , but maybe it's time you started finding your own piece of land to hunt . Sounds like you've been relying on your parents for too long to me . Let your parents do whats right for them and you move on . Hunt public land or go west . The world will keep turning no matter what happens to the farm . My parents did the same thing when they got old , so did my grandparents , circle of life , IMO . Just my two cents .

It very much emotionally hurt when I had to go thru this a few years ago. I had a lot of memories, time, money, and sweat invested into that property. At the end of the day we had to let it go.

The comfort of having it and knowing it intimately is the biggest lost.

Now with my kids and time to reflect I am excited about new opportunities elsewhere. I’ve started venturing out more to places I would have never tried. This process sucks but there is light at the end of it has to be let go.

 

[Scott85]

What kind of relationship do you have with your parents to find out that they are selling the farm the same day they list it? Could they cut timber to come up with money they you pay the difference?