“Long range”/ smokeless muzzleloaders

[VAspeedgoat]

Doesn't that take away the whole point of a muzzleloader? What about the primitive aspect and stalking in closer and giggling like a school kid with the big poof of smoke? If you want to shoot out that far, then just hunt with a rifle.

I will say that for the most part Smokeless only gives a minor improvement in velocity or accuracy. The real advantage is in the lack of cleaning required. Though I have heard of some high end guns being able to do it. My concern is recoil from a gun sending a 250 or 300 grain bullet 500 yds.

In VA half the state has a two week early season and then a three week late season. With a two week rifle season between. I personally wouldn't complain if they made it primitive but since it's not, I'm getting the muzzleloader I want.

 

[BrentD]

John, we regularly send bullets well in excess of 500 gr over 1000 yds with muzzleloaders. 250-300 gr bullets are ?????

Anyway, move to Tennessee, come to Oak Ridge next March, and do it with us. You will be amazed.

Cleaning is a snap. Only people that have never been owned and cared for by a long range muzzleloader thinks the cleaning is an issue. In fact it is simple and fast.

 

[ignorethefringes]

Doesn't that take away the whole point of a muzzleloader? What about the primitive aspect and stalking in closer and giggling like a school kid with the big poof of smoke? If you want to shoot out that far, then just hunt with a rifle.

The point of separate muzzleloader seasons I might add.

 

[OKED]

Look up Arrowhead sporting goods he has everything u need to do conversions or will build u a custom gun that will outshoot most center-fire rifles.

 

[AssawomanGunsmith]

Look up Arrowhead sporting goods he has everything u need to do conversions or will build u a custom gun that will outshoot most center-fire rifles.

Thats where I am looking, I have a friend having one built out there now and I got online checking out his conversions and was interested if anyone on here had done one.

 

[AssawomanGunsmith]

Doesn't that take away the whole point of a muzzleloader? What about the primitive aspect and stalking in closer and giggling like a school kid with the big poof of smoke? If you want to shoot out that far, then just hunt with a rifle.

I agree with you to a point and I love muzzleloading now but people could argue that if your not hunting with a flintlock then your not really muzzleloading, to each there own. Ive not looked into it but have been told there's more tags for muzzleloader "out west" and for someone like me who lives on the east coast and doesn't get to hunt western species very often I'm going to do everything in my power to take full advantage of a tag when I have it.

 

[Scott85]

I agree with you to a point and I love muzzleloading now but people could argue that if your not hunting with a flintlock then your not really muzzleloading, to each there own. Ive not looked into it but have been told there's more tags for muzzleloader "out west" and for someone like me who lives on the east coast and doesn't get to hunt western species very often I'm going to do everything in my power to take full advantage of a tag when I have it.

Be careful with that because a lot of western states have more strict rules when it come to muzzleloaders. I think there is only one western state that allows smokeless ML.

 

[AssawomanGunsmith]

Be careful with that because a lot of western states have more strict rules when it come to muzzleloaders. I think there is only one western state that allows smokeless ML.

Thanks for the heads-up, I remember now the guys were saying they used blackhorn 209 instead of smokeless for these states, I guess my response was more for the "long range" aspect and not the smokeless part

 

[OKED]

Thats where I am looking, I have a friend having one built out there now and I got online checking out his conversions and was interested if anyone on here had done one.

Yes Luke at Arrowhead has done 7 or 8 guns for me . U won't be disappointed.

 

[lr123]

I got a chance to get my hands on a Gunwerks muzzleloader over the weekend and it was extremely nice. I didn't ask how much but he said they had successfully taken an antelope at over 700 yards with one.

 

[Brian in Montana]

MLINO

Muzzle Loader In Name Only

 

[1_pointer]

If I was to get into a smokeless muzzleloader, probably the cheapest route would be to get a Handi-Rifle and order a barrel from these guys.

smokelessmuzzleloading.com -&nbspsmokelessmuzzleloading Resources and Information.

smokelessmuzzleloading.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, smokelessmuzzleloading.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com

 

[slim23]

i have 2 smokeless now. a 50 and 45. the 45 without sabots and using the aluminum tipped (can't remember name) is a phenomal shooter. and drops deer like the hammer of thor. the 50 still uses sabots and barnes 300 original and shoots good to 250 but the inconsistency of sabots starts to show more there. arrowhead sporting goods is where i get my parts

 

[std7mag]

Smokeless black powder...
Thought that was a 45-70...

You could give Gunwerks a call. They are shooting theirs to 800 yards, that i know of.

 

[PrairieHunter]

John, we regularly send bullets well in excess of 500 gr over 1000 yds with muzzleloaders. 250-300 gr bullets are ?????

Anyway, move to Tennessee, come to Oak Ridge next March, and do it with us. You will be amazed.

Cleaning is a snap. Only people that have never been owned and cared for by a long range muzzleloader thinks the cleaning is an issue. In fact it is simple and fast.

There is a reason most people don't go that "traditional" route even though you make it sound like another episode of Best of the West that anyone can do.

There is also a reason many hunters have even moved past the real black powder to 777 to Blackhorn 209 and now to smokeless. Easier to use, more consistent, better groups, weather resistant, less corrosive, etc... Same with ignition, sure the old ways work, but a primer works even better and is hands down eaiser to use, more consistent, etc..

I get that you are here to promote that way of shooting you enjoy but seriously pretending you have never heard of smokeless muzzle loader powder and telling everyone they should go traditional is just a waste of your time. Like jumping on a crossbow thread to tell people to buy a recurve.

To the OP from what I have seen there are a couple of options.
For around a grand there are factory options from remington, savage, and some single shot actions that I have seen.

Then there are the 3k-8k custom guns that are sold for 500+ yard shooting.

Some day I am going to get the Savage ML10. I check gun broker occasionally and there are usually a couple for sale.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Be careful with that because a lot of western states have more strict rules when it come to muzzleloaders. I think there is only one western state that allows smokeless ML.

Wyoming and Nebraska off the top of my head allow it, so there is 2 already.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/muzzleloader-regulations-by-state/

 

[BrentD]

Prairehunter, your post, like AssawomanGunsmith, suggests you don't have much experience with long range muzzleloaders. Pretty much everything in your post is simply wrong. As a person that regularly shoots to 1000 yds with muzzleloaders, I'm pretty confident of what they can and cannot do. There is a rich tradition of long range muzzleloading, going back to 1874 and beyond. The best quality blackpowder and percussion camps are neither more corrosive, less consistent, nor less accurate that smokeless. You can buy a long range muzzleloader off the shelf for about $1700 these days, though it will need to have its sights replaced. Long range bullets are pretty well worked out as well. There is a whole world of blackpowder long range shooting you probably have never seen, much less tried. You might be surprised.

And then there is the smokeless muzzleloading of the late 1800s by early guncranks like Harry Pope and crew. Their methods, of course, would not apply to legal muzzleloader hunting but I'm not sure if that is AssawomanGunsmith's goal. Again, there are many way to skin a cat. But most people don't know more than one.

 

[Howie]

Caseless Centerfire. Not primitive arm.......MLINO...I like dat

 

[PrairieHunter]

Prairehunter, your post, like AssawomanGunsmith, suggests you don't have much experience with long range muzzleloaders. Pretty much everything in your post is simply wrong. As a person that regularly shoots to 1000 yds with muzzleloaders, I'm pretty confident of what they can and cannot do. There is a rich tradition of long range muzzleloading, going back to 1874 and beyond. The best quality blackpowder and percussion camps are neither more corrosive, less consistent, nor less accurate that smokeless. You can buy a long range muzzleloader off the shelf for about $1700 these days, though it will need to have its sights replaced. Long range bullets are pretty well worked out as well. There is a whole world of blackpowder long range shooting you probably have never seen, much less tried. You might be surprised.

And then there is the smokeless muzzleloading of the late 1800s by early guncranks like Harry Pope and crew. Their methods, of course, would not apply to legal muzzleloader hunting but I'm not sure if that is AssawomanGunsmith's goal. Again, there are many way to skin a cat. But most people don't know more than one.

LOL.

If you want to believe that garbage go for it but to be honest you come off as a complete fool desperately promoting a way of shooting few people are interested in. I believe there are advantages with modern powders and ignition methods that are superior to the old ways you seem to be desperately trying to promote with no luck. The proof it in the pudding, and the number of people who shoot black powder and percussion caps gets smaller every year, and the number of people shooting BH209 and smokeless muzzleloaders gets larger.

Must be puzzling to you as you essentially are begging for people to agree with you on this thread and so far nobody has shown a bit of interest in what you are selling in spite of ridiculous claims.

Like I said would be like a recurve guy jumping on a crossbow thread telling everyone they have it wrong and the recurve will do anything the crossbow will do. Pretty easy to see through.

But my all means keep telling everyone how your way is better and there is no advantage shooting smokeless powder and 209 primers. It's entertaining if nothing else. I'm sure if you do it long enough there will be someone dumb enough to listen and try your way. Looking at your posts you are trying way to hard to get people interested and then getting mad when nobody gives a shit.

So in the end if you are trying to get more people interested in your way of muzzleloading you are failing miserably. While losing all credibilty with comments like claiming modern powder has no advantages over black powder. Keep up the fine work.

Maybe instead of hijacking a thread about modern smokeless muzzleloaders with talk about using blackpowder you should just start a thread and see if you can get anyone interested in your way of shooting as this really does not seem to be working for you.

Anyone want to talk traditional blackpowder and long range shooting with Brent?? Anyone?

 

[ignorethefringes]

LOL.

If you want to believe that garbage go for it but to be honest you come off as a complete fool desperately promoting a way of shooting few people are interested in. I believe there are advantages with modern powders and ignition methods that are superior to the old ways you seem to be desperately trying to promote with no luck. The proof it in the pudding, and the number of people who shoot black powder and percussion caps gets smaller every year, and the number of people shooting BH209 and smokeless muzzleloaders gets larger.

Must be puzzling to you as you essentially are begging for people to agree with you on this thread and so far nobody has shown a bit of interest in what you are selling in spite of ridiculous claims.

Like I said would be like a recurve guy jumping on a crossbow thread telling everyone they have it wrong and the recurve will do anything the crossbow will do. Pretty easy to see through.

But my all means keep telling everyone how your way is better and there is no advantage shooting smokeless powder and 209 primers. It's entertaining if nothing else. I'm sure if you do it long enough there will be someone dumb enough to listen and try your way. Looking at your posts you are trying way to hard to get people interested and then getting mad when nobody gives a shit.

So in the end if you are trying to get more people interested in your way of muzzleloading you are failing miserably. While losing all credibilty with comments like claiming modern powder has no advantages over black powder. Keep up the fine work.

Maybe instead of hijacking a thread about modern smokeless muzzleloaders with talk about using blackpowder you should just start a thread and see if you can get anyone interested in your way of shooting as this really does not seem to be working for you.

Anyone want to talk traditional blackpowder and long range shooting with Brent?? Anyone?

Well, I've always found Brent's insight on traditional firearms interesting. From what I've read he's pretty much an expert on the topic and I trust his opinion. Plus, I still shoot a basic blackpowder muzzleloader with percussion caps because that was all that was legal when I started back in Washington state. I have a slight disdain for the fact that muzzleloader seasons, in some areas, offer very little restriction over typical rifle seasons due to the allowance of "newer" equipment.

I'm actually kind of hoping the thread derails a little more so Brent can further explain the ong range blackpowder shooting he's been talking about.