Loan for hunting

[Treeshark]

This thread is pegging my financial anxiety to the max. A loan for a hunt…yikes! No way.

My $.02: we all have “dreams” we can’t afford- be satisfied with cheaper dreams now and work/save until you can afford the big ones.

 

[Addicting]

I will say I sent out some feeler emails this morning to see when folks are booking out to. Reality is that any decision made would not be paid in full any time soon. But a deposit could get placed in 2023 for a future hunt.

 

[Jofes]

You're not passionate about the outdoor life experience?

This thread has shown me I need to change my priorities... I just need to send it... #supperslamorsupperslammerby2023

 

[Addicting]

Sorry Your Honor, but 20 bucks is 20 bucks.

If all you’re worried about is 20 bucks just sell a RUM round. Lol

 

[Addicting]

supperslamorsupperslammerby2023

 

[Kiwi]

FWIW If the hunt is important to you, and you’re confident of paying off the loan without impacting your quality of life for you and your family, then go for it.

Personally I spend a fare bit annually on hunting the west (as well as around New Zealand) and think it’s worth every penny. When I started these international hunts I had the cash available but if I didn’t I would have borrowed the money for at least the first trip.

 

[Addicting]

FWIW If the hunt is important to you, and you’re confident of paying off the loan without impacting your quality of life for you and your family, then go for it.

Personally I spend a fare bit annually on hunting the west (as well as around New Zealand) and think it’s worth every penny. When I started these international hunts I had the cash available but if I didn’t I would have borrowed the money for at least the first trip.

From your posts I don’t think you would have regretted it either.

 

[EYJONAS!]

This thread has shown me I need to change my priorities... I just need to send it... #supperslamorsupperslammerby2023

Makes me want to sell my house and throw down a slick 300k on a grand slam.

 

[Addicting]

Makes me want to sell my house and throw down a slick 300k on a grand slam.

Why sell, just take out student loans….

 

[EYJONAS!]

Why sell, just take out student loans….

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Just playing devils advocate here! In this case it may be Saint Peter look I'm sorry I had hobbies I couldn't control and I'm sorry I left my poor spouse with that silly debt to chase/shoot an animal.

So just an FYI

Credit card debit is non-transferable and cannot be split. You can have multiple card holders on an account, but the debt is owned by the primary and the primary alone.

The card balance must be paid by the estate but most companies immediately sell your debt to collections agencies for pennies on the dollar and agencies make money by negotiating. Also credit card debt is the last thing you have to pay off in an estate. Meaning you can often settle credit card debt for 20-50% of the balance. Some issue a 1099-C, meaning you pay tax on the remainder some don’t.

Further since it’s unsecured they can’t repo anything. You could buy a car on your Amex, put your spouse on the title, die and she will keep the car, and legally the card company can’t come after her.

Obviously this isn’t true with a HELOC.

Which is all to say with some decent estate planning you can run around like an idiot without putting your family in jeopardy.

Whole life insurance + joint title are keys to the feckless hunting lifestyle.

 

[232401a]

If I were to look at the finances of a person that took out a loan to hunt, I suspect the $30K Dalll loan would be far from the only thing I would be critical of.

 

[Nick87]

Why sell, just take out student loans….

You may be onto something..

 

[Addicting]

If I were to look at the finances of a person that took out a loan to hunt, I suspect the $30K Dalll loan would be far from the only thing I would be critical of.

Are you a Judge? It’s a very Judgey sounding statement. This thread isn’t about what you think of other’s financial statements. It’s about loan interest break even verses inflation, life experiences verses saving and running out of health.

 

[Treeshark]

I know you didn’t quote my post, but your original post asked if someone taking out a $30k loan for a hunt was “insane.”

A lot of feedback has focused on that, mine certainly wasn’t meant to be judgmental- just honestly answering your original question.

 

[406dn]

As I have mentioned, I'm on the back side of 70.

How one handles their money is very personal and also carries profound consequences. I think that when a person gets to somewhere around 50, they will realize whether their choices with money have been wise or not. Because by then your cake is half way baked in the oven. There is little time for a mid course correction.

I am also picking up a lot of vibes that someone's big game hunting is over at a relatively young age. That might be true, but again it might not. I still hunt elk each fall. Not the way I could half a lifetime ago, but still well enough to enjoy it and get something from time to time. If I cared about deer hunting, I could get something every year.

A person's hunting career might be as long as mine, approaching 60 years. I can see several more in front of me, God willing. Two reasons I can still enjoy big game hunting are, I took good care with financial decisions over many decades. That has allowed me to have horses to enjoy for as long as I can swing a leg over one. Another, is holding on to your health. Some of that is beyond your control, but more than a little is under your control. If you want to extend your hunting career, don't age out without a fight.

Regarding being judgmental, hell we all are, to some extent. No one can stop someone from borrowing money for a vacation, but it's fair game to consider the wisdom in it.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Been thinking about this thread all morning and I’ll throw my thoughts into the mix.

I think that measuring the cost/reward value purely in financial terms is too simplistic to answer this question with a yes or no as to whether the OP should or shouldn’t take out a loan.

Everyone has their priorities over what they think is worth it and what they are willing to sacrifice in the process of getting what they want.

Not everyone understands or is honest with themselves about the cost of getting what they want and the enjoyment they experience in the process.

How bad do you want this experience?

Is it going to negatively impact your relationship with your wife or children?

Can you afford to ensure that your wife gets to experience an equally meaningful experience that is her priority?

Are you guys able to have a completely honest discussion about what it means to you, what sacrifices it will require and whether you both are willing to make those sacrifices together and emerge stronger together?

It’s not really appropriate for me to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do and you are going to make your own decision anyway.

However, it can be valuable to hear the rationale behind the choices that others have made and their experiences and whether they have regrets or not about those choices in hindsight.

For myself and my family situation, I have come to realize that currently there isn’t a hunt on earth that I can get $30,000 worth of enjoyment from in a week. I would rather spend $1,500 twenty times over ten years and enjoy multiple hunts for lesser animals in lesser locations.

I have been very fortunate and blessed to have been a participant in hunt experiences with family or friends that didn’t end up costing me a lot of money due to the circumstances surrounding each opportunity. Had I paid market value to be outfitted for each opportunity, the cost would probably be in the 100’s of thousands of dollars for the experience.

In most cases, I wasn’t the tag holder. In every case for me, I enjoyed the times where I participated without being the trigger puller as much as the times when I had the tag myself.

This is going to sound like bragging but I don’t intend it to be so.

I have been privileged to participate in ten mountain goat hunts, five bighorn sheep hunts, four Shiras moose hunts, and probably @ 50 combined successful elk and deer hunts over the past twenty years.
There’s probably another ten or so black bears in there as well.

Nearly all of those hunts took place in Montana on resident tags. All were unguided, DIY, where the largest costs were, gas, food, and gear for the trip.

Some years, my time off work, time away from home and the financial burden caused stress on my wife that I didn’t understand for a long time until she finally understood we had to talk about it and she worked up the courage to let me know. Those conversations weren’t always pleasant and carried with them some of the resentment and frustration that had been pent up, but they were necessary and we both wish we had addressed them way earlier in our relationship.

Now, we both have a better understanding of how much hunting with my friends means to me and how important it is that she gets to have her own meaningful experiences as well. We are getting much better at figuring out the sacrifice/reward ratio and making decisions based on what we think the experience will provide comps to how much each will have to sacrifice.

If I can stress anything from the experience it is to make sure you are both on the same page.

Having been blessed with so many hunt experiences personally, I have found my bucket list of things I still want to do has decreased dramatically. I’ve accepted that I will never hunt Stones sheep. Nor will I experience a Dall sheep hunt unless it’s as a non hunting companion with the only cost being travel, lodging and food.

Lord willing and I keep my health and I can do it responsibly, I will experience a DIY Alaska moose and caribou hunt within the next five years. Then there’s going to be a New Zealand tahr and chamois/ extended tour with my wife.

In summary, only you can know what is worth sacrificing for. It would be wise to ensure you include your wife in that decision.

 

[Bambistew]

You may be onto something..

Student loans haven't been paid back. Those PPP "loans" on the the other hand were forgiven and one of the many reasons that were in this inflation predicament. Giving billions and billions of dollars to companies that didn't even need the assistance, then forgiving it completely is ludicrous. People whining about student loans is funny.

 

[Nick87]

Student loans haven't been paid back. Those PPP "loans" on the the other hand were forgiven and one of the many reasons that were in this inflation predicament. Giving billions and billions of dollars to companies that didn't even need the assistance, then forgiving it completely is ludicrous. People whining about student loans is funny.

I think they're bothbullshit personally. People whining who recieved ppp about student loans is funny or vice versa. What's not funny is the guys in the middle footing the bill for both.

 

[Carnage2011]

So just an FYI

Credit card debit is non-transferable and cannot be split. You can have multiple card holders on an account, but the debt is owned by the primary and the primary alone.

The card balance must be paid by the estate but most companies immediately sell your debt to collections agencies for pennies on the dollar and agencies make money by negotiating. Also credit card debt is the last thing you have to pay off in an estate. Meaning you can often settle credit card debt for 20-50% of the balance. Some issue a 1099-C, meaning you pay tax on the remainder some don’t.

Further since it’s unsecured they can’t repo anything. You could buy a car on your Amex, put your spouse on the title, die and she will keep the car, and legally the card company can’t come after her.

Obviously this isn’t true with a HELOC.

Which is all to say with some decent estate planning you can run around like an idiot without putting your family in jeopardy.

Whole life insurance + joint title are keys to the feckless hunting lifestyle.

Had a local taxidermist going to Alaska every year for expensive hunts. Him and I were pretty good friends so one night I asked him what golden goose he had to afford all of these. He said “I’m putting everything on a credit card, I’m old as hell, and have no kids. If they are going to be dumb enough to give me the card, I’m going to max it out.” I laughed at him and thought he was crazy. He died of a heart attack a couple months later. I don’t know what his CC debt looked like, but he’d been on multiple griz, sheep, and moose hunts.