Load Testing/Bullet Questions

[OhHeyThereBen]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UK3g81i6-so

That's actually one of the ones that I watched as well. He does a great job. Think it would be too noticeable to do a full action bed on a walnut stock? I'm worried that I'd be able to see the epoxy around the action. Honestly, on this gun looks are a bit more important than function. Although, these consistently mediocre groups have resulted in like 50 bucks in reloads down the drain.

 

[VikingsGuy]

That's actually one of the ones that I watched as well. He does a great job. Think it would be too noticeable to do a full action bed on a walnut stock? I'm worried that I'd be able to see the epoxy around the action. Honestly, on this gun looks are a bit more important than function. Although, these consistently mediocre groups have resulted in like 50 bucks in reloads down the drain.

I would sand the stock barrel channel to make sure two dollar bills (stacked) can slide freely along its length and also pillar bed. This should be unnoticeable if done right. Shoot it and see if you can get reliable 1 MOA for a hunting rifle. If that works you are done and no reduction in appearance. If that isn't enough, you can (and I have on some stocks) just bed the action area around the recoil lug and the 2 actions screws - that too would be largely invisible - that may get you there. If you have to go the full monty, get brown dyed epoxy and are very careful you can do a largely unnoticeable full action bedding to, but no harm in taking it one step at a time and seeing how it shoots at each step.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I like this guy too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Z7ujjv89g - he does a minimal bedding job on a nice wood stock in this video

 

[JLS]

It’s not hard to bed it so you can’t see the epoxy or Devcon. Just don’t remove any wood of the top of the inletting.

If you add pillars I think it would be silly not to bed the recoil lug as well, but that’s me.

 

[Elkhunter24]

You put the rest of the box on a shelf, arranged by caliber (of course), and one of your buddies, or your kids, or your buddies' kids, or your kid's buddies will maybe want to try the same bullet in his/her gun one day and now you have some to try and saved them the problem of buying 50...

Disclaimer: Not my room, but a very good buddy's...and where I do most of my reloading.

View attachment 78659

This is great! haha love the picture and wish this was my reloading room

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

I like this guy too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Z7ujjv89g - he does a minimal bedding job on a nice wood stock in this video

This one is new to me. I'll definitely check it out.

I think I'll plan on giving this all a go in the next month or so. I can't really load any more '06 for my rifle until something gets fixed so my loads actually show me something. It's really funny that I never noticed this at all until I started reloading. And it wouldn't have bothered me having 1.5" groups before I started reloading. That gun has killed probably 30 deer since I've owned it! But I do know that a gun of this quality should be getting me at least .5" better... so we'll see what comes from it.

Do you guys mostly use Devcon? Would I be ok using axle grease for a release agent?

 

[VikingsGuy]

This one is new to me. I'll definitely check it out.

I think I'll plan on giving this all a go in the next month or so. I can't really load any more '06 for my rifle until something gets fixed so my loads actually show me something. It's really funny that I never noticed this at all until I started reloading. And it wouldn't have bothered me having 1.5" groups before I started reloading. That gun has killed probably 30 deer since I've owned it! But I do know that a gun of this quality should be getting me at least .5" better... so we'll see what comes from it.

Do you guys mostly use Devcon? Would I be ok using axle grease for a release agent?

I use devcon-steel and blonde/neutral shoe polish as release agent. Did use Brownells once, but like devcon-steel much more.

 

[JLS]

Don’t use axle grease.

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

Don’t use axle grease.

Won't. And will check out devcon-steel. They sell it in anything smaller than a big tub? The only epoxy that I really use is JB Weld.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Won't. And will check out devcon-steel. They sell it in anything smaller than a big tub? The only epoxy that I really use is JB Weld.

Devcon makes many expoxies - the one used most for gun bedding is Devcon 10110. 1lb is the smallest size I have found it and it runs about $45. This is probably enough to do 8-10 guns. Brownells Acraglass comes in a 1/4 lb size for $35, but I didn't like it as much so I bought the Devcon. If you PM me your mailing address I will send you my left over acraglass kit that is plenty to do 1 or 2 more guns plus has their release agent which I liked less than shoe polish - as it just sits around now that I have switched to Devcon.

 

[JLS]

I also like the Devcon better. It’s pretty thick, which makes it easier to work with in most instances. The article I linked to above recommended it, and Kiwi polish for release agent. The only hiccup I had with the Devcon was not using enough the first time, so I had some air pockets left over. It probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but I filled them anyway. It would have been much easier to use a lot the first time and wipe up the excess.

When you mix it up you’ll have a consistency of thick peanut butter.

 

[JLS]

Also, before you go through this process it might be worth having a gunsmith inspect the crown.

 

[BuzzH]

Another bedding video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1cYSThPm7E

 

[Don Fischer]

I've used 5 min clear epoxy to bed and it worked fine. Best I like JB Weld. Use about any paste car wax for a release agent.

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

So. After checking out my gun and looking at the possibility of doing a bedding job, I really don't think I can the way it's currently set up. My Model 70 was one of like two years that was made with a removable magazine (not a base plate and attached magazine). The trigger group is all one piece and there's a spring on the front where the clip gets held that would get ruined if I drilled a bigger hole in the stock up there. It wouldn't be a big deal if it was just material that I'd be removing, but this would ruin the clip attachment. I'm going to go ahead and sand out the barrel channel and epoxy the recoil lug. I'll see if I can get some pictures up here sometime as I forgot to take some last night when I was messing around with it.

Has anyone run into one of these Model 70 Classic DBMs before? I know they're a huge PITA to get magazines for. They were made around '94-'95. Do you guys just end up drilling through whatever metal is down there? There's just a little bit of actual wood that I could epoxy a spacer to unless I were to drill out and epoxy the entire magazine assembly to the stock (probably a horrible idea).

 

[Don Fischer]

Just wondering the process that you all use to develop a load (specifically a bullet) for your rifles. Do you guys really go out and buy boxes of 50 bullets in each weight that you think could work for your caliber and shoot a few through in order to find which weight/bullet type works? I know that this could easily be mitigated if I had a couple of reloading buddies to split bullet boxes with, but it seems like there would be somebody on the great interweb that would be selling a "variety pack" of different bullet types for different calibers. Or maybe it somehow takes 50 bullets to see if a certain bullet works in your gun (doubtful)?

I realize that reloading doesn't necessarily save money, which I'm fine with. I also realize that there is more to working up a load than just the bullet. But it seems that this would be by far the most expensive part of load development, with a chance of ending up with a bunch of spare bullets that shoot like crap in my gun.

Thoughts? Solutions?

Heavens no! I bullet's in box's of 100!

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

This. Free float that barrel and see what happens.

Are you testing multiple bullets and not just sticking to one? Powder selection? Seating depth?

Hey Ben. Just going back through this. Do you think that this could be a bullet thing? I'm planning on sanding down my stock this weekend if I can.

My dad's gun (M70 Supergrade) loved the SSTs, but I bet the difference between his (brand new) and my M70 (1994-ish) could be substantial. Maybe I'll pick up some of the Interlocks to see what they do.

 

[cahunter805]

Ben

Sometimes a rifle just doesn't like a certain bullet. Best to try a few bullets/powder combos and find what works for your rifle.

Sand out the barrel channel and then bed the recoil lug. Once you have the lug bedded check your freefloat after everything is reassembled and clearance more if needed.

Another thing to check is to make sure the front base screw isn't contacting the barrel threads.

When bedding the lug I use a stud to help center it in the stock. Be sure to apply release agent to all metal. I tape off the stock so anything that spills out can be easily cleaned up and the stock protected.

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

Dredging this old boy back up. I FINALLY got my barrel free floated and re-bedded my recoil lug on the Win M70 30-06. I also switched from the 165 gr. SST to a 178 gr. ELD-X. These resulted in 5 shot groups of just over an inch! I had a three shot group at .4 inches and have faith that if I do my job my gun will shoot that all day.

Now my question for any of you reloaded out there. I'm basically right in the middle of the reloading spec range for this load at 51.5 gr H4350. The Hornady manual uses my exact gun to test velocities, so I'm guessing I'll be pretty close to the 2500 fps that they're getting (I don't have a chrono yet). What are your opinions of trying to get another ~100 fps out of it as well as finding a higher velocity accuracy node out of it? Am I going to ballistically get much advantage on it? I don't shoot anything over 300 yds.

Another thing to add is that I could get the same velocity out of the 200 gr. ELD-X.

I appreciate all the help you all have provided on this and look forward to seeing what you all say.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Dredging this old boy back up. I FINALLY got my barrel free floated and re-bedded my recoil lug on the Win M70 30-06. I also switched from the 165 gr. SST to a 178 gr. ELD-X. These resulted in 5 shot groups of just over an inch! I had a three shot group at .4 inches and have faith that if I do my job my gun will shoot that all day.

Now my question for any of you reloaded out there. I'm basically right in the middle of the reloading spec range for this load at 51.5 gr H4350. The Hornady manual uses my exact gun to test velocities, so I'm guessing I'll be pretty close to the 2500 fps that they're getting (I don't have a chrono yet). What are your opinions of trying to get another ~100 fps out of it as well as finding a higher velocity accuracy node out of it? Am I going to ballistically get much advantage on it? I don't shoot anything over 300 yds.

Another thing to add is that I could get the same velocity out of the 200 gr. ELD-X.

I appreciate all the help you all have provided on this and look forward to seeing what you all say.

I am no expert, but my understanding is that there is often a node near the book max and that this is often the tightest load. FWIW - I would load up to find it (but watch for pressure as you go).