Llama Hunting - Prices 2021- Ouch

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

We don't have free healthcare do we @Aussie_hunter_JD we pay for it in tax!

As for cricket, can't stand the game! (mainly because most of the time we are crap at it!)

I asked Beau the question in relation to bears attacking his Llamas and he said he had never had an issue.

Cheers

Richard

Correct, nothing is truly free.

If I was an Englishman I wouldn't watch cricket either haha I kid. I don't know what's more aussie than sitting under the shade of a redgum on a hot day with a beer in one hand, fishing rod in the other listening to the cricket on the wireless around Christmas time.

 

[Nick_CO]

Predators don’t mess with pack Llamas. Goats I would worry about

Llamas in pastures have been preyed upon plenty by Mountain Lions (see @Sytes post above) so I don't think a lion would have a problem eating one that's tied up in the mountains if it really wanted to. If someone owns Llamas in cat country, those Llamas are going to be observed by the local mountain lions on a fairly regular basis throughout the years and they might become accustomed to seeing Llamas on the landscape and possibly associate them as a natural prey animal.

Llamas that are in an area temporarily for a hunting or pack trip may not even get seen by a lion, or the lion doesn't see it as it's typical prey, or they are not unattended by humans long enough to present a good opportunity for an attack.

Thankfully it's a rare occurrence and I worry about it in much the same way that I worry about getting attacked myself which is very unlikely.

 

[lastlight]

There’s a reason people get the larger llamas to protect other livestock from predators. Those article don’t state what kind of llamas were killed, so I guess they are alpacas. I know people who own llamas and goats/sheep/alpacas in lion country. Ask llama outfitters if they loose their stock to lions or bears in the backcountry... it may happen but very rare.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@Sytes more important question bear spray or handgun to defend your llamas?

It’s a risk, like everything you do there are risks. I haven’t hunted with llamas in areas with heavy lion or bear densities so it hasn’t been an issue.

I’d be curious to pick Matt Rinella’s (is that the right Rinella) brain he hunts per the podcast in the bob quite frequently with his llamas.

 

[Sytes]

I’d be curious to pick Matt Rinella’s (is that the right Rinella) brain he hunts per the podcast in the bob quite frequently with his llamas.

That would be cool. The Bob's ripe with every form of predator NA offers! (generalized statement). Griz, Black, wolf, cat, 'yote... etc.

 

[squirrel]

Interesting to read the concerns of the "other side" of the equation for insights as to how better one's rental business. My favorite is to hunt with duck slayer for free... I like that option particularly well. Lots of comments above dealing with $, understandable but negotiable. I've been through 3 major waves in the llama roller coaster and never seen it peak this high before, kinda funny after the depth of the trough which was about 2012.

For those who are feeling priced out of the market lets just say that there are still rental outfits that haven't been properly consulted by big fin to raise their prices yet. Though with the price of a ton of hay this year it may be moving soon! Shop around and make sure you get references, funny how that is missed by almost 100% of clients. I don't believe I have ever had a new guy ask for a referral list of previous users. I find that strange, but people are funny in many ways.
If twere me I would be much more concerned about the quality of the animals and of the gear/tack than price but obviously I am in the fringes here.

As far as the cost goes, hate to break it to ya but the "free meat" thing is a joke to be used on your subsidizing spouse, especially if crossing a state line...

PS please figure on 1 more llama than you think you will need when planning around your kitchen table, it just works that way, in spite of you thinking that YOU are different than those "other guys".

 

[fmnjr]

Admittedly I am biased towards Beau's llamas, having used them on over a dozen trips. In addition to all the things he provides as part of his daily fee, you are getting some of the best trained mountain pack llamas in North America. These llamas already have 500+ miles on this over the course of the summer, working in the primary part of Beau's business, which are his backcountry summer tourist trips. In addition to being fit and lean, these llamas are also socially adjusted very well, having many different people leading them across the mountains over the course of a summer.

When I first rented from Beau, it was $50 per day. I couldn't believe what I got for that price. I convinced him to increase his prices to $70, then $80, and now $100. Even at that price, he has a peak-season waiting list longer than he can fill. The quality of his operation and the benefit these llamas provide to over-the-hill hunters like me is worth way more than what he charges. I understand what I perceive them to be worth today, compared to when I was in my 30s would have been vastly different.

Given the huge demand they have in hunting season, I am trying to convince them to start a "Time Share" type of arrangement so his recurring customers can buy a week, or however many days, of llama capacity. They buy it in advance, almost like buying a spot on the list for foreseeable seasons, allowing him to better plan his season and better meet the needs of his recurring customers. That will probably take more llamas off the "open for use" market, possibly driving up prices even more.

Beau's work ethic and concern for his customers is reflected in the quality of llamas he provides. His llamas are the Top Guns (he has one named that) of the non-equine mountain hunting pack animal solutions. Value is the intersection of price and quality. The quality of his animals and how prepped he has everything when you show up, the "quality" part of that equation is high.

I tell him that he should be charging what the market will demand for that quality. He's not even close to that. He and I talk a few times each week about the business side of his operation. It is his nature to be price-sensitive, as most small business owners inherently are. My role as his friend and quasi-advisor is to make sure he is getting the market value from the years of work he has invested in building this herd of llamas.

His summer tourist trips are the large majority of his business, compared to renting llamas to hunters. With COVID costing him the vast majority of those trips, I am trying to help him develop policies where he doesn't take the entire hit for cancelled reservations. I am also trying to convince him to increase those trip prices. When you are booked two years in advance (in non-COVID years) for your summer trips, you are surely way under the market rate. No matter what he charges for hunting rentals, it will never make up the huge operating costs and overhead that comes with the summer tourist business.

I wish that cost was not an issue with many things in life, including hunting costs and llama rentals. Yet, Beau is in a business with huge risks and high fixed costs. He deserves to make a good living while he does all this work and takes on all of these risks.

This sounds very much like the business model for vacation rentals.

 

[fmnjr]

Gold rush times, it was observed that the real money was in being a supplier. Seems to also be the case with being a hunting vendor/provider as well.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

PS please figure on 1 more llama than you think you will need when planning around your kitchen table, it just works that way, in spite of you thinking that YOU are different than those "other guys".

100% 3 llamas is the minimum I think for an elk hunt with the plan being to take 1 elk. 4 Is preferable hands down.

 

[squirrel]

100% 3 llamas is the minimum I think for an elk hunt with the plan being to take 1 elk. 4 Is preferable hands down.

personally I'm a huge fan of 10-15... no reason for anyone or anything to suffer unduly, and sometimes I just want to wash up in the kitchen sink.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

personally I'm a huge fan of 10-15... no reason for anyone or anything to suffer unduly, and sometimes I just want to wash up in the kitchen sink.

View attachment 163903

How was your hunt?
Great I spent the first morning walking in and the next three days unsaddling the llamas.

 

[squirrel]

How was your hunt?
Great I spent the first morning walking in and the next three days unsaddling the llamas.

OK now I'm confused is this thread about your being cheap or lazy?? (If both I can't believe we have never hunted together as I seem to be an attractant to same!)

In all seriousness after a fella's first trip he needs to spend some serious time with his llama supplier and ask for specifics on EXACTLY how to expedite his T/H logistics, (and some will not know themselves). That guy in the pic leading the 12 string, generally I will pack 8-9 of mine and half of his and when I head down the trail he will lag 15 or more minutes behind. And that is BEFORE he goes back for his rifle still leaning against the truck tire.

There is an art to packing/saddling, and it can be taught although it is kinda like filleting walleye your first 1000 are the hardest.

Generally I like to keep my solo adventures to under 8 llamas, this does , however, mean I have to get by on summer over-nighters with less than 500# of gear, I can do it if I cut the handle off of my toothbrush.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

OK now I'm confused is this thread about your being cheap or lazy?? (If both I can't believe we have never hunted together as I seem to be an attractant to same!)

In all seriousness after a fella's first trip he needs to spend some serious time with his llama supplier and ask for specifics on EXACTLY how to expedite his T/H logistics, (and some will not know themselves). That guy in the pic leading the 12 string, generally I will pack 8-9 of mine and half of his and when I head down the trail he will lag 15 or more minutes behind. And that is BEFORE he goes back for his rifle still leaning against the truck tire.

There is an art to packing/saddling, and it can be taught although it is kinda like filleting walleye your first 1000 are the hardest.

Generally I like to keep my solo adventures to under 8 llamas, this does , however, mean I have to get by on summer over-nighters with less than 500# of gear, I can do it if I cut the handle off of my toothbrush.

Penury & Sloth... uncommon bed fellows, I think not, and certainly hallmarks of my many epithets.

Personally I run a long handle spoon, and short legged dog. Weight savings, marginal, but at least I'm not some jerry with a hot tent.

 

[squirrel]

Even the dog has to contribute in certain circles. Otherwise they too are susceptible to sloth.

A good pack animal is defined as ... "Any animal that is carrying what otherwise would be on my back."

 

[rjthehunter]

I'm the kind of guy that looks at the price and says well screw that... I'll pack it out myself for free lol

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm the kind of guy that looks at the price and says well screw that... I'll pack it out myself for free lol

The last two elk I killed (using llamas) Mike Wolfe probably couldn’t have packed out in a timely manner.

 

[squirrel]

I'm the kind of guy that looks at the price and says well screw that... I'll pack it out myself for free lol

Even worse I'm the guy who feeds 25 llamas all year and packs my elk out on my own back cause all my boys are out on rentals...

How many birthdays have you suffered? Not many renters are under the magic # of 40.

 

[rjthehunter]

Even worse I'm the guy who feeds 25 llamas all year and packs my elk out on my own back cause all my boys are out on rentals...

How many birthdays have you suffered? Not many renters are under the magic # of 40.

Only 23 lol, and that would be awful owning lamas and not getting to use them... I'd always keep a couple on reserve for myself!

 

[ChaosOneZero]

It is a struggle to keep hunting an every man's game. I have always faced the issue that anyone with more $$$ could get deeper in than I could. Whether that means horses, llamas, or ATV's, the guy with the most toys often wins.

It's even true for the guy who puts everything on his back. A high end meat hauling pack with enough cubic inches to go deep is not cheap. Then add all the backpacking accoutrements.

Each of us has to decide where our priority and treasure are going to go.

Agree with virtually every word of this. And when you add in the time investment, it gets even harder if you're short on both time and money.

 

[SaskHunter]

If you ladies want to complain about prices for hunting related gear move to Australia. I just ordered a new rifle for $1500 that retails for around $600 in the states. And that's the norm being half a world away from everywhere.

I saw someone complained about $800 for a gun dog, try to find a well bred one here for under $1,500most are $2k plus.

Got a price on a kifaru other day, to my door for $1,400, or a SG Sky 5900 only $1,100

Want to shoot Barnes bullets in your 30 cal? VORTX are only around $100 per box of 20, you can save and get projectiles in a box of 50 for about $90

Maybe you want to buy a Nissan titan? a steal at $150,000 drive away.

Want to fly domestically on a 3hr flight for a hunt like we're doing next year that's $500-1000 depending on the deal you can get.

We don't use llamas here because we have a big trophy hunting culture. Most folks don't need them when all they take from a dead deer is a set of antlers but rest assured if people did hire out llamas they'd be $500 a day!

Well everything has to be made and designed the other way, like bullets with that drop up, cars that drive tires up, upside down scopes, ceiling walking dogs, etc...

You guys have it good from where I'm standing.

You mean upside down?