VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
What line of work are you in to make this sort of statement. Pretty arrogant for your 4th post. Welcome to the forum.....I think.
Leupold VX-III 4.5-14 CDS problems!!
- Thread starter MTGunner
- Start date
What line of work are you in to make this sort of statement. Pretty arrogant for your 4th post. Welcome to the forum.....I think.
Gunner46
Well-known member
^ That +1. I for one plan on using nothing but Leupolds all on my rifles, from here on. May take me some time to get them replaced, but I know the investment is going to be worth every cent.
The only time I ever ran into elevation issues with a 'travel' rifle was with a set of mis-matched rings. It took a knowledgeable old fart from the K-Bay Rod & Gun Club to figure it out, just before our Axis deer hunt in Hawaii.
A quick shim of foil fixed it and it's still there, 25 yrs later. Still shooting dead on.
The only time I ever ran into elevation issues with a 'travel' rifle was with a set of mis-matched rings. It took a knowledgeable old fart from the K-Bay Rod & Gun Club to figure it out, just before our Axis deer hunt in Hawaii.
A quick shim of foil fixed it and it's still there, 25 yrs later. Still shooting dead on.
TimeOnTarget
Well-known member
While I agree that Leupold's feel of quality has went down in the past 10 years, I have to think %80 return rate is complete BS. Any company with that kind of track record doesn't stick around long.
StrutNut
New member
I owned 4 Vari X III's. I have sold 3 of 4. The three all went back for warranty work and sold them when they came back. Scopes have come a long way since I bought them but I still see a lot of warranty issues with them on many forums. I have bought cheap, really cheap scopes without any issed (Nikko Sterling) but my next scope I am looking at either a NightForce SHV or the New Burris XTR II. Still not sure if I am going SFP or FFP.
80%? Sounds like somebody just pulled a number out of their A$$.
So tell me, what scope should I buy then? My leupold must be one of the lucky 20%. Or maybe I don't shoot enough , how many sub-moa groups do I need to verify my "repeatability"?
I know this is an Internet forum, but we still like to use facts and cite our sources when these types of claims are made. Jeez!
sagebrush
Active member
Feel sorry for all of the other Leupold owners. Based on the 80% return rate, there are 28 poor suckers that will be suck with a bad scope because of the 7 perfect ones I own.
Formidilosus
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I did not say 80% "return rate". I said around 80% will have issues out of the box whether it is canted reticles, incorrect adjustments, inconsistent adjustments, failure to return to zero, etc.
I also said that most don't see it because they don't test it, yet it is there. If you "zero" your rifle with 5-10 shots "2 inches high" as the vast majority do and then the next time it's shot is at an animal and you don't dial, and then put it up for the year you would probably never see it..... Until you go on a hunt where they make you check.... Especially if it was subjected to a bit worse than a padded gun safe.
Formidilosus
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Not arrogant at all. I work at a place where I see more ammo shot in a single week then most have seen in their entire lives. From January until now I've shot a bit over 14k center fire rounds. Every single round has been measured/timed/logged. So far I've had one EoTech on a 10.5, one Vortex Razor GenII on a Recce, three 4.5-14x's Mark 4 Leupolds on M82's, two 3.5-10x Mark 4's on M110's, and one 2.5-8x Mark 4 on a MK12 fail completely.
For those that think that I am making it up, how do you test, zero and practice?
Guys, get back on topic and stop quibbling with each other or I'm locking the thread.
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
Good point cornell, I would just like to clarify my starement. I felt it was arrogant to assume that members on this forum had not shot enough to see this before. Formidilosus, I admit it was probably a poor choice of words so for that I apologize. There are many here that shoot often enough to find this and many have already commented on this thread. I am NOT one of them so I defer to others on this topic.
As it seems you work somewhere that things such as this are tested, what scope/scopes do you reccommend, and what tests do you perform to test them?
As it seems you work somewhere that things such as this are tested, what scope/scopes do you reccommend, and what tests do you perform to test them?
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Have owned 10 or 12 from VariX II to VX6....yes, a few zero hold problems but all were corrected with attachment or rifle issue resolution...not one Leupold issue.
Formidilosus, sounds like you have some extensive info to share...stick around & let's hear some. There are plenty of optics/ballistics threads.Leupold also does some good work sponsoring this free site...just saying.
I have had problems with a 4.5x14 vxiii with a tall elevation turet too. It crapped out on me last summer so i sent it back in for repair, bought a vx2 4x12 cds to get me thru the fall because they were right about a month out on repairs last fall. I remounted the scope this spring and decided to enter a long range tactical shoot last month. The scope was doing great for about the first 60 shots, then it went south. I am getting ready to send it back in again. I also had an older 6.5 x 20 efs with tall turrets give it up on me this spring. I love leupold scopes, but I'm begining to wonder about their turret reliability. I wish they would beef up their internals or nightforce would come out with a scope that didn't weigh as much as a boat anchor. I do have an older Vari-x 4.5x14 with an elevation turret made around 2002, mounted on a 338 ultra that has been flawless and it definately has been abused.
Formidilosus
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wildwyo,
There is a certain limit to building scopes. It takes certain materials and design to produce a scope that works correctly everytime and holds zero. Unfortunately that comes with a weight penalty. You're just not going to find a 12-14 oz scope that is built correctly.
Both the Nightforce 2.5-10x and the SWFA SS 3-9x weight around 19oz which is not extreme.
There is a certain limit to building scopes. It takes certain materials and design to produce a scope that works correctly everytime and holds zero. Unfortunately that comes with a weight penalty. You're just not going to find a 12-14 oz scope that is built correctly.
Both the Nightforce 2.5-10x and the SWFA SS 3-9x weight around 19oz which is not extreme.
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
It sounds like something broke loose in the OP's scope.
I would tend to agree that if you are going to be dialing alot of corrections you need to step out of the Vari-x line and into the LR/Ts. THe M1 turret is designed to handle the type of shooting you are talking about. Most scopes under $1k just aren't designed to handle these repeated adjustments, the one possible exception might be SWFA SS.
However, for the average hunter, I think the CDS is fairly adequate. I did a box test with a VX-2 4-12 AO w/CDS this spring and it tracked right on. Also, as BuzzH has mentioned numerous times, you can have the dual erector springs installed on your CDS scope, or have the CDS or factory turret replaced with an M1. Do I have more confidence in my M1 turrets, absolutely, but for shooting coyotes and 1-3 shots I take each year on big game it seems to be working fine so far.
I would tend to agree that if you are going to be dialing alot of corrections you need to step out of the Vari-x line and into the LR/Ts. THe M1 turret is designed to handle the type of shooting you are talking about. Most scopes under $1k just aren't designed to handle these repeated adjustments, the one possible exception might be SWFA SS.
However, for the average hunter, I think the CDS is fairly adequate. I did a box test with a VX-2 4-12 AO w/CDS this spring and it tracked right on. Also, as BuzzH has mentioned numerous times, you can have the dual erector springs installed on your CDS scope, or have the CDS or factory turret replaced with an M1. Do I have more confidence in my M1 turrets, absolutely, but for shooting coyotes and 1-3 shots I take each year on big game it seems to be working fine so far.
MTGunner
Well-known member
Just rec'd. notice from Leupold that they will assess the problem with my VXIII 4.5-14 CDS. Notice states that it will be ready to ship in approx. 10 working days. I think Leupold has the best customer service. Hopefully this will work out for me. BTW, I am in the market for another quality scope. I am looking at Nightforce, Swarovski, Trijicon, Vortex and etc, etc. Not going to New Zealand with but one rifle. Have made up my mind to take my Rem. 700, 300WSM and my Rem. 700, Mountain in 260AI. Will also take spare scope for insurance. Not going to risk failure of equipment. The failure may be mine but not equipment, hopefully all will go as planning. MTG
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Hey Form, I've learned alot from your posts on other sites. What I don't think is realized a lot of the time, is a hunter does not notice certain shortcomings of a scope that you point out. Regardless of the maker. Nor does it matter in the grand scheme. Leupolds work, and work well for guys that hunt. For some reason trying to prove a product inferior is common stuff on the net. Even so, I know what I will always have mounted on my elk rifle. Welcome to HT. mtmuley
Formidilosus
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Thank you mtmuley,
To be clear I am not trying to prove Leupold or any other brand inferrier. To me gear has about as much emotional value as what brand windshield wipers is used on my truck. It's just a tool.
However, the OP's problem is not at all unusual and not stating facts goes against the very purpose of forums. Regular hunting scopes are just not built to be dialed, even something as simple as a CDS. Yet more and more hunters are starting to shoot past 200-300 yards and realizing that dialing for elevation is a better way to go than BDC reticles.
The problem comes from a couple of angles. First is that hunters don't have the knowledge or experience in long range shooting to understand what is required of not only themselves but their rifle/scope/bullet/etc. The second is that while for a time I had thought that manufactures were deliberately marketing weak hunting scopes to LR shooters to make money, I eventually realized after talking with enough reps and even having them on ranges where their scopes failed in front of them, that they just don't know either. They don't have the background or skill to understand it.
Hitting things with a rifle especially at long range in field conditions consistently requires the rifle system, that is-
1) Action/barrel
2) Stock and bedding
3) Scope
4) Bases and rings
5) Ammo
To be completely stable every single day, every time. Now we can say " _______ scope is great sorry you had a problem but they have a great warranty", but how does that help the OP, wildwyo, or the others who have had repeated scope failures? When I can take 10 brand new scopes (and I have) unwrap them, put them in a machine and test tracking, return to zero, reticle cant, and impact testing and all 10 suffer from incorrect adjustment values, 3 out of 10 failed return to zero by over .5 MOA, all suffered canted reticles, and almost half failed impact testing by .5 MOA, that's a serious problem.
It certainly is not limited to one brand. In fact even with all of that, I would rather have a fixed 6x Leupold than just about any other regular hunting scope regardless of price.
MTgunner,
For your stated use and need, look at Nightforce NXS compacts and SWFA's SS series. As well the Bushnell LRHS is a good choice.
To be clear I am not trying to prove Leupold or any other brand inferrier. To me gear has about as much emotional value as what brand windshield wipers is used on my truck. It's just a tool.
However, the OP's problem is not at all unusual and not stating facts goes against the very purpose of forums. Regular hunting scopes are just not built to be dialed, even something as simple as a CDS. Yet more and more hunters are starting to shoot past 200-300 yards and realizing that dialing for elevation is a better way to go than BDC reticles.
The problem comes from a couple of angles. First is that hunters don't have the knowledge or experience in long range shooting to understand what is required of not only themselves but their rifle/scope/bullet/etc. The second is that while for a time I had thought that manufactures were deliberately marketing weak hunting scopes to LR shooters to make money, I eventually realized after talking with enough reps and even having them on ranges where their scopes failed in front of them, that they just don't know either. They don't have the background or skill to understand it.
Hitting things with a rifle especially at long range in field conditions consistently requires the rifle system, that is-
1) Action/barrel
2) Stock and bedding
3) Scope
4) Bases and rings
5) Ammo
To be completely stable every single day, every time. Now we can say " _______ scope is great sorry you had a problem but they have a great warranty", but how does that help the OP, wildwyo, or the others who have had repeated scope failures? When I can take 10 brand new scopes (and I have) unwrap them, put them in a machine and test tracking, return to zero, reticle cant, and impact testing and all 10 suffer from incorrect adjustment values, 3 out of 10 failed return to zero by over .5 MOA, all suffered canted reticles, and almost half failed impact testing by .5 MOA, that's a serious problem.
It certainly is not limited to one brand. In fact even with all of that, I would rather have a fixed 6x Leupold than just about any other regular hunting scope regardless of price.
MTgunner,
For your stated use and need, look at Nightforce NXS compacts and SWFA's SS series. As well the Bushnell LRHS is a good choice.
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
I think I'm starting to understand this a little better. Is it safe to assume then that guys like me that sight there rifles pre season at 2" high and don't "dial" are oblivious to this problem? If so, this may be why so manny of us were surprised by this thread. Do the dual erector springs as mentioned earlier help?
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