Kerry on Gun & Animal Rights issues

[Calif. Hunter]

Again - where did I say that supporting the anti-freeze bill is funding anybody?

You brought up the funding issue yourself, fool! In the first post you made on this topic back on page one -

"For all we know the legislation might have been to provide funds for animal shelters to spay cats and dogs. In which case I'd be for it, too."

My response was that funding any of their activities frees up funds for other activities, including anti-hunting campaigns.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ca., I'm confused. So if a piece of legislation provides funding for animal shelters we should not support that legislation because the animal rights groups would then have to spend less on supporting shelters and that would free up money for them to spend elsewhere? Is that your point?

CA Hunter said, "My response was that funding any of their activities frees up funds for other activities, including anti-hunting campaigns."

Here's an example: Defenders of Wildlife

Fought to stop "same-day, land-and-shoot" killing of wolves in Alaska.


Sounds bad, huh?

Here's more of what they do:

Species Conservation: Endangered species recovery, Predator protection and restoration, Wild bird protection, Marine mammal protection.

Habitat Conservation: Ecosystems protection, Refuge reform, Gap analysis, Marine biodiversity, "Watchable" Wildlife programs and books.

Policy Leadership: Endangered Species Act, State and federal wildlife laws, Biodiversity education, Wildlife trade, International treaties.

Representative Accomplishments:

Endangered Species:

More than two decades of leadership in passage and enforcement of the Endangered Species Act of 1973 (ESA).
Successful plaintiff for endangered species, winning victories to enforce the ESA and expedite listings of species and adoption of recovery plans.
Founding member and Steering Committee member of Endangered Species Coalition.
Helped draft Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES).
Participates in international CITES meetings to help protect wildlife from overexploitation in trade.
Published book on how to use incentives to make the ESA work more effectively.


They also provide financial help for National Wildlife Refuges. So if they support a bill to provide additional funding for wildlife refuges would you automatically oppose the bill because they oppose "same day land and shooting of wolves in Alaska"? Remember, most animal rights groups supported legislation to ban that practice.

They are a member of this group: National Wildlife Refuge Association (NWRA), a nonprofit refuge advocacy group, launched a nationwide Friends Initiative in 1996. The idea behind the initiative is to build a national refuge support network by identifying, connecting and servicing existing refuge support groups and helping new groups get started.

 

[pawclaws]

Oh crap!! GW is hetrosexual too!!

 

[ELKCHSR]

Maybe that is why gunner doensn't like him... Maybe that's why marrige isn't a happenin thing...

 

[Ithaca 37]

Notice how quiet it gets when some posters are challenged to take a position?

 

[Hangar18]

Hanger refuses to tell us his position. He tries to dodge the question and take the easy way out.

LMFAO!! You have to be kidding. Anyone else that read my post knows you will get an answer from me when you agree to stop ridiculing people. That's not a refusal, that is blackmail, and still more respect than you give others.

I anxiously await a solution to this quandary from MD, Plainsman, CA Hunter and Bambi. Maybe Hanger will help us figure out what to do.

I don't know about everyone else, but you need to quit ridiculing people. That's what you need to do.

Notice how quit it gets when some posters are challenged to take a position?

I notice how selective some posters get in their reading when they are challenged to grow up and show some basic respect.

 

[Ithaca 37]

OK, Hanger, We'll list you as "no position". It's tough here in SI, good luck being the cop.

 

[ELKCHSR]

And it is the Teen agers that will dictate how much quality this area of the board will produce???
When the ignorant posting of the truely uninformed on this board arn't posting, the quality level of the SI section goes up dramatically and it is actually very interesting to sit and read all of it...

 

[Bullhound]

Just received word that Michelin has decided to end its sponsorship of AHA after being hit with tons of emails and calls by hunters and other sportsmen. I had sent my comments to Michelin and had exchanged a couple words with them. I, for one, am glad to see that they see the light.

IT,
reading your crappola makes me want to puke. no kidding

EG,
the coffee's still burning.................................

 

[pawclaws]

They more likely see the moths in their wallets!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bull and Paws, Could you please let us know your position on these two bills? Are you for or against them?

Antifreeze Safety Act (H.R. 1563)
Summary: Endorsed by the American Kennel Club, Consumers Union, Pet Food Institute, Children's Defense Fund, American Veterinary Medical Association and the World Wildlife Fund, this bill would require the addition of a bittering agent to antifreeze to render it unpalatable to animals and children. Several states already require it, and others are considering similar legislation, but only federal legislation will ensure uniform compliance across the nation. Get factsheet (pdf). Status: Active. Sponsor: Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) Position/Action: SUPPORT.

Send an Action Letter to Congress!
Charitable Pet Trusts Act
Summary: Allow animal guardians to establish a "charitable remainder trust" to care for their animals. After the animals pass away, the remainder of the trust goes to a specified charity. Get Factsheet (pdf). Status: Not yet introduced. Position/Action: SUPPORT.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Yep, I went to bed about 10 PM, so I guess that qualifies as becoming quiet.

I have taken a position - I will not support funding of private organizations with public funds if those organizations are opposed to matters I support. Selfish? You bet. We all vote selfishly in most cases, based upon what is important to us - unless someone mindlessly follows someone else's agenda.

As far as your specific example of "land and shoot," I do not know if I support the prohibition against hunting the same day you fly. I am against harrassing, herding or spotting from the air. But flying into a pre-arranged camp site should not preclude you from hunting that same day. The difficulties in distinguishing or differentiating the actions may mean that practicality and reality dictate the prohibition against same day flying and hunting due to enforcement problems. I can live with that. I often look at the entire situation and act or vote accordingly, rather on a narrow, single-issue basis. But I may not, if the single issue is important enough to me. After all, this is America and I am free to choose, to change my mind or to support whoever and whatever I want...and I resent your efforts to pigeonhole or stereotype me.

Nice dodging the issue after accusing me of diverting the topic to funding, when it was you who brought it up, and I think that I have answered your questions - or at least those that I consider relevant and serious.

 

[Hangar18]

Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
OK, Hanger, We'll list you as "no position". It's tough here in SI, good luck being the cop.

Let me know when it gets tough in SI Ithaca. The bullies that need to belittle others just make it unpleasant, not tough. Sincerely, Hangar18

 

[Ithaca 37]

Hangar, If you wannna see what it was like when it was tough go back to this general time period.

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000170

Since those days this place has been real mild! BTW, Would it be possible for you to provide a link to your first few posts in SI about a year ago?

CA. Hunter, We're still having a real hard time getting on the same wavelength. My example of a bill that would provide funding for animal shelters was NOT meant to be providing money to one specific organization. It would have been tax dollars provided to ANY animal shelter that met the requirements----or it might have been providing an additional avenue for individual organizations to raise money eg. letting them hold a lottery. Would you oppose a bill like that because SOME of the tax money might go to some organization that had an anti-hunting stance, or because SOME organization might decide to hold a lottery to raise money? It sounds like you would.

Just because an organization supports a bill that would provide funding or a method of funding for animal shelters doesn't mean that THEY will be the one that benefits directly.

BTW, I helped pass a bill that made it possible for the ID Dept. of F&G to make available a bighorn sheep permit to an organization to use for fund raising by lottery. ID FNAWS always gets the permit, but there's no guarentee. It would be possible for any other organization to get the permit if their proposal to the F&G sounded better-----even the AHA, Doris Day League, Lung Association or Girl Scouts. It's usually not possible to exclude individual organizations from benefitting from legislation.

-------------------------------------------

CA Hunter, What would be your position on these two bills (keeping in mind who else is in favor of them)?

Antifreeze Safety Act (H.R. 1563)
Summary: Endorsed by the American Kennel Club, Consumers Union, Pet Food Institute, Children's Defense Fund, American Veterinary Medical Association and the World Wildlife Fund, this bill would require the addition of a bittering agent to antifreeze to render it unpalatable to animals and children. Several states already require it, and others are considering similar legislation, but only federal legislation will ensure uniform compliance across the nation. Get factsheet (pdf). Status: Active. Sponsor: Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) Position/Action: SUPPORT.

Send an Action Letter to Congress!
Charitable Pet Trusts Act
Summary: Allow animal guardians to establish a "charitable remainder trust" to care for their animals. After the animals pass away, the remainder of the trust goes to a specified charity. Get Factsheet (pdf). Status: Not yet introduced. Position/Action: SUPPORT.

 

[Bullhound]

On the bills:

#1 no problem

#2 What?????????????

 

[Hangar18]

I'm just asking that you knock the childish belittling off. Is that too much?

Hangar, If you wannna see what it was like when it was tough go back to this general time period.

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000170

Since those days this place has been real mild! BTW, Would it be possible for you to provide a link to your first few posts in SI about a year ago?

Your point?

My first post, I called the author a "dumass"

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000990


My second post, 5/14/2003. I told FEW his husband must be proud, and later acknowledged it was funny that he was "just fuggin around dude". You were refered to as "him/her" & democRat, 5/16/2003.

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=001529


My first Original post, no belittling

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=001534


5/20/2003, I agreed with you and thanked you for the post.

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=001539


Aside from my first few days, I have kept the insults out of my posts.

Again, your point?

[ 05-28-2004, 12:09: Message edited by: Hangar18 ]

 

[Bullhound]

Hanger,

boy, you was a dirty SOB wasn't ya. Glad to see you've calmed down. By the way, IT and EG will continue with the trash talk as long as they can drag in a breath.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

It ,
Your defense of the environment is noble.

Your opinions on John Kerry , Ralph Nader , John Marvel , Doris Day etc. range from entertaining to hilarious.

But you loose all credibility when you attempt to defend groups like the American Humane Association , the ASPCA and especially the Defenders of Wildlife !!!

REALITY It ; The overwhelming majority of these groups' members are adamantly opposed to all forms of hunting , trapping and fishing .

They're not about puppies drinking anti-freeze or Siegfried and Roy forcing a tiger to roll a ball accross a stage in Las Vegas .

They are militant vegetarians who hate hunters and fishermen with a passion . They want our guns , our bows and our fishing poles gone.
Their two biggest adversaries are laboratory research and HUNTERS !!!
They print some fluffy propaganda about animal shelters and puppy mills only to sucker in the support of the weak minded , left leaning sheep ,whose only concept of nature is watching the movie Bambi. Apparently it works Ithica .

 

[Hangar18]

Originally posted by Bullhound:
Hanger,

boy, you was a dirty SOB wasn't ya. Glad to see you've calmed down. By the way, IT and EG will continue with the trash talk as long as they can drag in a breath.

Bullhound - I am just sick about it. BTW - I hit they reply button by accident instead of the URL button. Who's the dumass now? LOL


edit: Found one that may or may not be insulting, depending on the perspective. "Your knee-jerk reaction gave you a bloody nose this time. On this issue you are completely full of shit, and I'm going to prove it."

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=001776

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I would support those two bills - the first does nothing that I can see to fund any private organizations and the second, while allowing the establishment of a caretaking fund with the balance going to a specified charity (which could be the Humane Society or PETA), still does a "good thing" in my opinion. After all, someone who establishes such a fund may bequeath funds to HSUS or PETA anyway, even if the caretaking fund was not an option. Of course, they also may just have a good ol' bird dog that they set up a fund to care for, with any remainder going to NAVHDA.

We can spend all day going over specific issues and how I may or may not feel about them. My points are, and remain, that I will make decisions on a case by case basis on what is important to me and the overall effect or benefit of the bill. I also reserve the right to change my mind or to act differently in different circumstances.