Just What is BLM Land Worth?

[Nemont]

Would you believe $280,000 per acre? I didn't even know the BLM could auction off land. Has anyone heard about these auctions taking place?

June 3, 2004


Vegas-area land sells for $280,000 an acre
Associated Press

LAS VEGAS - Prices boomed to nearly $280,000 an acre at a Bureau of Land Management auction Wednesday, with 2,532 acres of formerly federal land purchased by developers in fast-growing Clark County.

The largest parcel - 1,940 acres in the Henderson hills that received no bids in November - sold for $557 million to the Focus Group, a southern Nevada developer that is earmarking it for a master-planned community.

"When you sell a piece of property for half a billion dollars, it's shocking," said Mark Morse, BLM Las Vegas manager. He attributed the spike in land prices - from an average of $173,245 per acre in November to $279,298 per acre Wednesday - to a continuing building boom in the Las Vegas area. Las Vegas is in Clark County.


In all, bidders pledged to pay the BLM more than $707 million for 71 parcels that had been appraised at almost $310 million. Most parcels were in developing areas northwest and southwest of Las Vegas.

BLM officials said 454 bidders posted deposits ranging from $10,000 for smaller 11/4-acre parcels to $50 million for the Henderson hills parcel.

The first-ever requirement for deposits came after bidders at previous auctions failed to complete purchases, requiring the agency to offer parcels for sale again.

In one day, the auction total exceeded the more than $700 million BLM has taken in selling 5,655 acres during 16 previous auctions authorized by the Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act of 1998.

The program has been praised by Interior Secretary Gale Norton as a model that could be used to dispose of federal land and protect sensitive areas. It remains unique to Clark County, where the federal government owns 80 percent of the land.

The act sets aside 5 percent of auction receipts for schools, 10 percent for water infrastructure and most of the remaining 85 percent for environmentally sensitive lands in Clark County and elsewhere in the state.
MORE INFO

[ 06-04-2004, 12:05: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[Bambistew]

Holly smokes... It where are ya??? Would you rather have ranchers or condo's?

 

[smalls]

Hmmm...do you think they will reinvest that into land in other areas...500 million would purchase alot of land in western Nodak and eastern montana for public use....

 

[Oak]

Wonder how much they're going to have to pay for water to keep the place alive?

Oak

 

[Nemont]

Think of this way: That is $35,350,000 for school kids. In the world of public lands grazing that is a GREAT thing, never mind it will be a concrete covered subdivision the school kids are taken care of.

Nemont

[ 06-04-2004, 14:17: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[ELKCHSR]

It'll probably all be spent this summer on those danged fire fighters..

 

[1_pointer]

Elkchsr- I doubt it, that budget is already set! BTW, we had the first fire in our district on Thursday, 2000ac of cheatgrass burned.

I'm torn how to feel. Like others, I feel the money could be beneficial for purchasing more sensitive/important areas and hope it is. The areas immediately around Las Vegas are pretty much a lost cause, it's the fastest growing city in the US and I have no idea why.

 

[ELKCHSR]

The local government gives tax breaks to buisness, and it is easy to get into and out of by aircraft. The weather is pretty temperate year round and these things combined will bring in the needed comercial buisness. This is one of the same things that happend to the Seattle area. Now they have become so invasive with their rules that they are chasing the big buisness away to places like the above mentioned...

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Nemont:
Think of this way: That is $35,350,000 for school kids. In the world of public lands grazing that is a GREAT thing, never mind it will be a concrete covered subdivision the school kids are taken care of.

Nemont

Nemont,
That $35mil likley only covers the cost of building the NEW buildings for the NEW kids. Does nothing to improve anything.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Oak that's a good point about the water. It makes no sense to continue to increase the population in Las Vegas when they are already having issues with providing water for everybody. Can't blame the BLM for selling it off for that outrageous price though.

 

[Bambistew]

Gunner, most likely the developer is going to be responsible for a major portion if not all of the new schools construction. Its usually a trade off from the county... We'll let you build all these homes "if" you pay for all the public infastructure and shcools. It happens here all the time. Plus what about all the new homes? They will be assezed and provide that much more money for the school kids? The schools will do nothing but win from this deal!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Bambi,
We are both speculating, but in Idaho, we don't charge the developers "impact fees", we require everybody in the district to build the new schools.

Right now, in the Valley here, we have houses going up constantly (1350sq feet for $94k, no money down, free washer and dryer), and then every year (or so it seems), we pass a bond for a new grade school/middle school/ or high school.

Maybe in Maryland, but not here. And $35 mil doesn't go very far to building schools, and certainly would not last in the operating of the schools.

Anybody that thinks development is good for schools must not have been paying attention in schools. Try watching your kids learn in a Kindgergarten class room that is in a trailer, with 25 other 5 year olds...

 

[ELKCHSR]

We had to do that in High school....
I just wonder what happens to all the extra money that is brought in on the highr taxes that are collected on that particular peice of ground after the improvements, compaired to when the ground was empty.

 

[Nemont]

EG,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nemont:
Think of this way: That is $35,350,000 for school kids. In the world of public lands grazing that is a GREAT thing, never mind it will be a concrete covered subdivision the school kids are taken care of.

Nemont


Nemont,
That $35mil likley only covers the cost of building the NEW buildings for the NEW kids. Does nothing to improve anything.

I was being a smart ass comparing it to your earlier thread regarding land board and funding schools.

I don't necessarily think it is a good deal.

Nemont

 

[Bambistew]

Here is where the money will go...

http://www.nv.blm.gov/snplma/default.asp.

So 5% of the sale goes to education...

gunner you're right in some ways... I'm speculating as well. But I assume that PUD's are the same accross the states...for the most part

This appears to be a PUD (planed unit development) These type of subdivisons are kind of unique as compared to typical subdivision of say a parcel into 100 lots... PUD's are master plans to basicaly build a small city including shopping centers, schools, highways, homes industrial and commercial sites etc. I'm speculating again here, but I happen to be working on just this sort of project... our PUD is about three times this big including 7 shcools, a mall and numberous industial and commercial sites. The commercial and industrial sites generate 10 times the ammount of tax revinue as the residential sites do... thats free money for the shcools... it will really boil down to a win/win solution untill the neighborhood goes to chit if it does... good neighborhoods support good schools.

They will have to jump though all kinds of hoops to get it approved, one major hurddel being construction or partial construction of public schools. The developer will most likely be responsible for all or partial construction and most likely have to pay for all public infrastructure, i.e. roads, sewer, stormdrains etc. After which they infrastructure will be turned over to the county.

One other thing we are over looking... It's Clark county Nevada, they got plenty of money for thier shcools.

Do you really think that 1900 acres could be utilized by the public for more than 577 million? Looks like a good sale to me. Everyone is happy

 

[JoseCuervo]

Bambi,

I am not sure we should be nominating the Developer for any Medal fo Freedom for all of his alturism, just yet.

When I parked the Double Wide out here, I had to put in my own "infrastructure" by drilling a well and building an outhouse. (I keep getting those two mixed up in the dark, sure is a bummer... ).

The developer having to build the sewer lines and the other infrasturcture is just to support the people he is selling to. Ultimately, the costs are paid by the consumer. The Developer gets no Medals for bravery on these efforts. Just another businessman, adding up the Revenues, subtracting the Expenses, and discounting the Profits at Risk-adjust rate.

He will be long dead, and in his grave, and there will still be sewer pipes installed by the Lowest Bidder, school buildings needing teachers every day, and crumbling roads due to poor specifications during engineering. All that burden will be passed on to the kids of these BlackJack Dealers and Vegas Showgirls.

Developing close-in Public Lands and depositing the money in the Treasury for Dubya to waste in Iraq seems like a fool-hardy solution. In Boise, a bond was passed to buy the Private land in close, and preserve it as open space. It turns out Citizens prefer Open Space, Public Lands far more than they do another Planned Unit Development, and even to the extent that they will assess a Levy on themselves to pay for it.

The Citizens of the US were fleeced on this deal by Dubya, selling MY Children's Grandchildren's land so Dubya could pay more bad informants in Iraq. A short term euphoria, followed by a long time hang-over.

 

[ELKCHSR]

That's pretty slick you you can work a "Lowly Developer" to doing all of the evil dirty work of our president...
Yep, it's a big conspiracy, that's it, the one world order plan, souly orchastrated by this evil regime and all of its dupes that blindly follow...
This war had to be taken on by some one. They had declared war on us a long time ago and it was high time...U.S. Navy Capt. Ouimette is the XO at NAS, Pensacola.
Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate
account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so
necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe
it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I
think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued
to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of
peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students
attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an
outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's
most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on
this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the
next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience
and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President
Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in
the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol
of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since
the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and
poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission
that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped
and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to
protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US
soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was
driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it
kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze
Button once more.

Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with
over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine
Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America
mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with
explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America
continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the
gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes
in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the
main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the
snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are
continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and
we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the
passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners
when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the
most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988,
killing 259.

America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are
still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder The terrorists decide
to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot
and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested
after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground
parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people
are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an
act of war?

The Snooze alarm is depressed again. Then in November 1995 a car bomb
explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven
service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only
35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It
destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and
injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as
they see that America does not respond decisively..

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two
US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with
precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks
and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12
October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded
killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war,
but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most
Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America.
How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979
and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every
high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't
know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think
you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or
CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been
developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I
think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue
until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has
been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the
sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep
hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to
sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems
all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we
need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage,
political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't
have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a
political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an
AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our
children in years to come.

 

[Bullhound]

That was well said. Not that it hasn't been laid out before. It's sad that so many will attack Bush over and over, but none have the nerve to address the fact that this shit HAS been happening for a long time and something had to give.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Bullhound:
That was well said. Not that it hasn't been laid out before. It's sad that so many will attack Bush over and over, but none have the nerve to address the fact that this shit HAS been happening for a long time and something had to give.

Uhhh... Bullhound, we do have the "nerve" to address this mismanagment of our Public Lands by Dubya. That is what this whole thread is about. It is about Dubya selling OUR lands to pay for his budget deficit.

ElkCheese,
Is there anywhere in Anaconda that you can buy a clue, if we all send you money???

 

[Bambistew]

I don't know if my link worked but here is what they do with the money... Its not going to Iraq

The Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act (SNPLMA) became law in October, 1998. It allows the Bureau of Land Management to sell public land within a specific boundary around Las Vegas, Nevada. The revenue derived from land sales is split between the State of Nevada General Education Fund (5%), the Southern Nevada Water Authority (10%), and a special account available to the Secretary of the Interior for:

- Acquiring environmentally sensitive land in the State of Nevada.

- Capital improvements at the Lake Mead National Recreation Area, the Desert National Wildlife Refuge, the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area and other areas administered by the Bureau of Land Management in Clark County, and the Spring Mountains National Recreation Area;

- Developing a multi-species habitat conservation plan in Clark County

- Funding the development of parks, trails, and natural areas in Clark County, Nevada, pursuant to a cooperative agreement with a unit of local government.

- Conservation Initiatives on Federal land in Clark County, Nevada, administered by the Department of the Interior or the Department of Agriculture.

Other provisions in the SNPLMA direct certain land sale and acquisition procedures, direct the BLM to convey title to land in the McCarran Airport noise zone to Clark County, and provide for the sale of land for affordable housing.

This website is the place to learn about the SNPLMA, and find out what is going on with land sales, acquisitions and other aspects of its implementation. If you are having trouble finding what you need, or have suggestions on how we might improve our site, please let us know by using the “contact us” option above, or by calling 702-515-5114.

Thank you for your interest in the Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act.

Looks to me like the "fund" just got a hell of a bost to help out the environment... What do you think 500 million could do for salmon recovery? Would it be worth giving up 1900 acres?

I agree with you that some development like what you talk about is not so good for schools, but you live in podunk Idaho, where the land planners probly don't have much experience in land planing, let alone a PUD. People with qualified experience in land planing generally aren't in small towns making minimum wage... I'm not aware of any large PUD's in ID, but there may well be some. CO, NV, and AZ have quite a few in and around the major cities (this is where suburbs come from), do a serch on them and see what you find, then do a serch on the quality of the schools and see what they say... I will bet you will be surprised...

Again PUD's are a horse of a diffrent color compared to a regular subdivision. You are correct that the developer will just pass along the expences to the home buyers, but he has to front all that money untill the infrastructure is inplace. The county has to raise no tax revinue to cover all the cost of implementing that infrastructure which can be a huge undertaking. Sure the roads, pipes, and others will have to be repaired but if designed properly buy the engineers and approved by the county, that infrastrucuter will be good to go for the next 50-80 years... Thats plenty of time to generate the funds to cover reconstruction and replacement.

Currently there are about 5 PUD's in and around where I live. The home sites go like hot cakes because they are "the place" to live.

They have by far and away the best and newest public schools around, closest shopping, newest infrastructure, 20%+ open spaces, walking paths, recreation centers... etc. etc. 7,000+/-1000 SF lots will sell for $80,000-$150,000+...

Compared to lots in mulitfamily subdivions of the same size that will go for about half that in decent neighborhoods... Put the same size house on both and you still generate more property tax off the large development. For the same number of new students. All subdivions have to be approved by the board of education though some form or another, to make sure that the schools can handle the new kids. If they can't then we just put up an "adult" community that you have to be over 55 to live in... The board of education is influenced by politics however so that number can fluctuate from school district to school district.

Look at it this way, the peopel are still going to move to LAS, they will still need a place to live. People could subdivide thier little 8 acre slice of heaven into 20 lots and choke the shools in an area, or they could move into a master planed community that has the infrastructure in place to handle the "new" community.

BTW if you leave the bucket up in your well you will catch most of the "problem"