Judge Rules S&W Can Be Sued

[Deleted member 28227]

i agree with you here.

but i think in a lot of states a jury would decide if that was illegal use of force. it's not just it is or it isn't.

i know in colorado the sheriff who taught my course cited the tueller drill in scenario like this - that a grown man can cover 21 feet in 1.5 seconds, and if he has a knife 21 feet is reasonably too close for you to feel safe...

really irrelevant to your already valid point. but i find self defense scenarios such a fascinating area of discussion, and the more i discuss them, the less i carry my gun honestly.

Absolutely.
My instructor discussed a case where Driver 1 flipped off Driver 2. Driver 2 followed driver 1 to a gas station and got out of his car screaming. Driver 1 got out of his car with a gun. Driver 2 pulled his CC and shot Driver 1. Jury/Judge ruled it was not self defense because Driver 2 chose to pursue Driver 1.

So to your point it would be up to a Jury, both in a specific instances and to a specific ad to rule if the actions/as were/is legal or not and/or award damages.

That said, that ad is just an example of a number I have seen that I think are really pushing the envelope.

 

[TOGIE]

That said, that ad is just an example of a number I have seen that I think are really pushing the envelope.

definitely. ads for guns and gun accessories shouldn't even be remotely showing or replicating scenarios that DA's, judges, grand juries, and juries are going to spend weeks deciding the legality of in real life

it's like, here's an ad for a condom showing a scantily clad gal leaning in to a car window on a dark city street....

 

[Hammsolo]

Missoula Shooting

It reminds me of this situation. Shouldn’t taking a life be the absolute last action in every situation?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think failing to fully navigate complex judgement rules re: use of force state by state is far less liability generating than overblown Rambo adds.

Coming to a M&P ad near you.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Missoula Shooting

It reminds me of this situation. Shouldn’t taking a life be the absolute last action in every situation?

We've elevated the idea that American men should all be warriors who take no slight from anyone and that our property is far more valuable than life. That deal was sad all around, but I think it highlights the dangers of just promoting the gun, and not the training, temperament & sound mind it takes to wield such force.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Starting at 11:55, this video is insane - we should not create a culture where rando citizens are jonesing to kill people on their neighbor's property to protect no one.

I'd give this dumb*ss the electric chair for being not only a murderer but also for being a total f'ing moron.

 

[VikingsGuy]

despite the science that shows encouraging youth drinking leads to life long dependency issues & more cost to society.

Along a more general concern - over 60% of hard science peer-reviewed studies (chemistry/physics/engineering/biochem/molbio) cannot be replicated. I would speculate that number gets worse in the less tangible fields of study. Also, in my experience, a very large percentage of social science and human health studies are used for propositions far beyond the actual data and study design. I want society to make scienced-based descisions, but then we really have to dig into the details and see the rigor or the relevance. I don't know which science in particular you are referring to, but far more often than not when I go down that rabbit hole on a particular topic the science isn't there.

 

[Irrelevant]

We've elevated the idea that American men should all be warriors who take no slight from anyone and that our property is far more valuable than life. That deal was sad all around, but I think it highlights the dangers of just promoting the gun, and not the training, temperament & sound mind it takes to wield such force.

Didn't we hang horse thieves? I mean, property over life is basically an unspoken (though sometimes shouted) tenant of the 'Merican way.

 

[JohnCushman]

If any of you fantasizes or have actually killed a human being who has looked you in the eyes as you pulled the trigger, I call bullshit that you'd think it is easy or won't effect the rest of your life. All of you weekend Rambo's that think you'll just shoot someone on your property are full of shit after you live with pulling the trigger.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Along a more general concern - over 60% of hard science peer-reviewed studies (chemistry/physics/engineering/biochem/molbio) cannot be replicated. I would speculate that number gets worse in the less tangible fields of study. Also, in my experience, a very large percentage of social science and human health studies are used for propositions far beyond the actual data and study design. I want society to make scienced-based descisions, but then we really have to dig into the details and see the rigor or the relevance. I don't know which science in particular you are referring to, but far more often than not when I go down that rabbit hole on a particular topic the science isn't there.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Didn't we hang horse thieves? I mean, property over life is basically an unspoken (though sometimes shouted) tenant of the 'Merican way.

We used to buy & sell humans as well, but I'm not sure we want to go down that road until page 43 or so.

 

[Trap]

People being held accountable for their actions? That's a joke. It's always someone else's fault.

Hell we had a sitting president try start an insurrection without any ramifications... not sure how less accountable we can be as a country. Individual actions mean nothing. Why else would we have the 2nd more lawyers per capita (I thought it was the most, but apparently Israel has double the US count)?

Seems to me any decision on this case will eventually be appealed to the Supreme Court.

A sitting president started and insurrection
So it’s Trumps fault? Yes of course sorry for the silly question. Sue trump, google for the research he most likely did, the car manufacturers that he used to drive there, the gas station where he got gas, the ammunition manufacturer, who did I miss?

 

[VikingsGuy]

A sitting president started and insurrection
So it’s Trumps fault? Yes of course sorry for the silly question. Sue trump, google for the research he most likely did, the car manufacturers that he used to drive there, the gas station where he got gas, the ammunition manufacturer, who did I miss?

Message board posters who traffic in logical fallacies?

 

[jabber]

it's like, here's an ad for a condom showing a scantily clad gal leaning in to a car window on a dark city street....

Ugh, your link didn't come through.....

 

[noharleyyet]

The castle ramifications of pulling the trigger, or suffering the consequences of not pulling is going to f*ck up your life. In a split second most of us aren't going to take a poll...we are going to err on the side of protecting family..who just happen to live within sheetrock walls where, coincidently, our possessions are. I damn sure hope I never have to use the sh*t I have for it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The castle ramifications of pulling the trigger, or suffering the consequences of not pulling is going to f*ck up your life. In a split second most of us aren't going to take a poll...we are going to err on the side of protecting family..who just happen to live within sheetrock walls where, coincidently, our possessions are. I damn sure hope I never have to use the shit I have for it.

I agree, once the moment presents itself you are already screwed - and if you pull the trigger much of your fate now is in the hands of your state attorney. People spend lots of time fretting about presidents, senators, governors, mayors, etc. But for most of life's messy stuff, the good will of a LEO or the good will of the DA will be what actually matters - so spend at least spend as much time making sure you like your sheriff or state/county lead attorney when it comes ballot time.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

The castle ramifications of pulling the trigger, or suffering the consequences of not pulling is going to f*ck up your life. In a split second most of us aren't going to take a poll...we are going to err on the side of protecting family..who just happen to live within sheetrock walls where, coincidently, our possessions are. I damn sure hope I never have to use the sh*t I have for it.

I shoot some what often around my house on a dead end road…. Who says I have to leave it up to a jury if someone decides to enter my home without an invite? Really you could practice SSS right? Just a little stirring the pot
Matt

 

[VikingsGuy]

I shoot some what often around my house on a dead end road…. Who says I have to leave it up to a jury if someone decides to enter my home without an invite? Really you could practice SSS right? Just a little stirring the pot
Matt

True story - I had a beloved uncle who was a little off (vietnam vet) who was a small-town sheriff in the west who would constantly remind relatives that if we had to shoot someone on the front porch or driveway that we should drag their bodies into the house before calling LEO. Apparently, CSI wasn't a thing back then When I got my driver's license he told me I always had to carry a gun, shovel and bag of lime in the trunk in case things got western.

 

[Sytes]

I agree, once the moment presents itself you are already screwed - and if you pull the trigger much of your fate now is in the hands of your state attorney

Step into a law enforcement officer's shoes...

Amazing how society has this inherent fear yet...

Not a knock on you VG in any manner... taking the content many share yet can not seem to fathom the 1,000,000+ sworn LEO's who run towards gun shots, etc while others run away.

There was a show that offered news anchors with a few volunteering, placed them into virtual shoot / don't shoot scenarios .

A very different perspective when they reflected on the cell phone whipped out of a pocket in a quick fraction of a second, etc. For a 20+ year attempt to retire while protecting the innocent from the evil...

 

[Little Canyon Creek]

Along a more general concern - over 60% of hard science peer-reviewed studies (chemistry/physics/engineering/biochem/molbio) cannot be replicated.

I don't know where you got that number, but I am going to call bullshit on that. I am a synthetic organic chemist and while I have run into issues of not replicating the odd result, it has been nowhere near the 60% of the stuff I have tried from the literature. When I run into those issues I get pretty livid as it is a waste of my time, so it isn't like I am making light of the issue. But if I am running a reaction out of the literature I expect it to work, and my success rate is significantly higher than 40%. These literature procedures are almost entirely published by graduate students and postdocs who are by their definition trainees and are less skilled than scientists in industry, meaning you would expect more mistakes. If anything I have had more issues replicating experiments from patents published by industry, but I think that is because the lawyers get their hands on it before it gets published.

If you do want to call out particular fields, more biological fields have more issues with replication. I think quality control is more challenging in those fields, and the nature of their work means they have to very carefully design the controls of their experiments. But these issues aren't really applicable to lots of physical science disciplines.