Bambistew
Well-known member
Doesn't change the fact that you're not getting any more elk any time soon, with or without killing off the wolves.
Judge orders Wisconsin DNR to start wolf hunt this month
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Carnage2011
Well-known member
Not wanting to sound like too much of an asshole here, but the only “hunters” I know that want to kill all the wolves are just shitty elk hunters looking for an excuse.
There is that for sure.
Who is advocating killing all the wolves? I think they are a neat animal. I also think we shoukd stick to the recovery goals agreed upon in the reintroduction plan.
Your black and white agreed upon numbers are not entirely accurate. Those were minimum numbers, and included the component of genetic connectivity/interchange, which wasn’t sufficient at the bare minimum.
That's what some HT members do to get their cheerleaders patting their back... make a false story pretending you said something by presumption (with malice intent) and watch the pom poms shake... some don't read posts other than those they follow.
I'm not a fan of poison however, I'm all for helicopter gov shooters. Problem for my area, R1 MT has enough problems trying to keep a helicopter for elk counts none the less for cracking wolves.
I fully agree with your basis wolf numbers must hold a quality accuracy and be properly dispatched to keep a quality managed #. Along with that, reflective of the ungulate population. Elk have problems in R1 compounded by an added apex predator.
Watch some will claim my comment means I think the lack of elk is only due to wolves... wait for it... wait for it...
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shoots-straight
Well-known member
I think I've said this a thousands times: You could kill off every Lion, Grizzly Bear, Black Bear, Wolf, coyotes and bob and Lynx cats, and STILL not be able to Increase the ELK and DEER populations in Montana because our Legislature Dictates how we manage our Big Game populations. Why do you still feel the need to kill off predators to low numbers. How about Black bears and Lions? Should we hold them to minimum numbers too?
Robert beat me too it. Managing at bare minimum is a shitty way of doing business that won’t appreciably increase your deer and elk numbers. At the same time, its disingenuous to suggest it’s morally okay to use poison and choppers for wolves but not elk.
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tjones
Guest
For the 100th time, that was never a number to manage to, that is a minimum population number.
I recall this pipe dream...
"We are clearly aiming to reduce the wolf population in Montana," said Ken McDonald, FWP's wildlife bureau chief in Helena. "Last year we hoped to reach a minimum population of about 425 after the hunting season, but after more than five months of hunting the population still grew from the previous year. This year we sought, and the commission approved, additional management tools to help reach a social balance that better reflects biological realities and public tolerance and values."
Pre POM...
"We are clearly aiming to reduce the wolf population in Montana," said Ken McDonald, FWP's wildlife bureau chief in Helena. "Last year we hoped to reach a minimum population of about 425 after the hunting season, but after more than five months of hunting the population still grew from the previous year. This year we sought, and the commission approved, additional management tools to help reach a social balance that better reflects biological realities and public tolerance and values."
Pre POM...
As I said above double that figure. Even at 200 we would be much better off than we are now.
Why is it not morally ok to use choppers or poison? Love to hear your reasoning.
In MT we can already use poison to manage colony varmints and the like.
And we now have poisons that are pretty selective to killings only canines.
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In certain areas of Montana like the areas around the parks and NW I think predator management would help.
As a blanket strategy accross the state you ate certainly right in that it will not help.
I also agree the elk management plan is a sham, but that's neither here nor there.
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tjones
Guest
You do understand they don’t make poison that just kills wolves right?
I believe xylitol is only toxic to dogs and cats.
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tjones
Guest
So coyotes, fox, lions,bobcat, lynx probably marten, fisher, and the neighbors dog.
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BrentD
Well-known member
Indeed. Damn!
just necessary collateral damage. Nothing to worry about. Saving elk/deer targets for hunters is all that matters.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Don't forget that Wolverine and maybe bear. A whole plethora of animals to get listed. DUMB!!!!
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
I don’t know that morals play into it in this case. For one, it seems like the epitome of idiocy to pay for choppers and poison when there are literally thousands of people willing to pay for the opportunity go hunt or trap them. Don’t we bash Californians for very similar views of the best way to control predators?
Second, the non-target kills for poisons are not acceptable to many hunters, let alone members of the public. That’s a non-starter in this day and age, and yet another public relations nightmare wolf management doesn’t need.
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