glass eye
Well-known member
Jasper wildfire/climate change
- Thread starter Dubz337
- Start date
I hear you, but in my OP, I did say the standing deadwood caused by pine beetles was a factor as well. I just believe the main factor for the rise in number and severity of wildfire is climate change.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
What's the science behind it? We are only a couple of inches away from our wettest year on record.
There's the same amount of water on earth every year. Whether it's snow in the mountains, or rain in a rainforest. Clearly there's been a dry spell over there. It doesn't mean it's not flooding somewhere else. (The Mississippi was just busting at the seams in MN.)
Maybe companies updated their graphics? Maybe the bottom one has an overlay showing air quality, which is usually shown as differing colours?
Nope definitely a conspiracy.
Today I learned the amount of water on earth dictates climate change.
Very scientific.
You do realize climate change also causes flooding and other weather related events right? Not just drought which you seem fixated on?
Bigjay73
Well-known member
Yes, we realize that it is convenient and easy to blame every weather event on climate change.
Climate change impacts
Though we often think about human-induced climate change as something that will happen in the future, it is an ongoing process. Ecosystems and communities in the United States and around the world are being impacted today.
Even more than weather events, what do you know
Bigjay73
Well-known member
I know that all the whining in the world isn't going to change a damn thing. Climate change is real, as are people use it for likes on silly posts
I don’t know how a world heritage site, one in the mountains which I assume everyone on this site enjoys, and many have visited, getting destroyed is a silly post. I’ve seen multiple other threads about wildfires on here.
I don’t really get the whining shot either, I do multiple things in my everyday life to try and do my part to not contribute to it.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
You concluded the post by blaming it all on climate change... that's the disconnect if you were wondering.
David58
Well-known member
Sweeping over generalization. Maybe rather note that only two of those records were set after 2000, or the percentage that were set during the 1930s (dust bowl). The overall high temp map done similarly will show only three all time highs for any day/month happen after 2000. Disparately large numbers in the decade of the 1930s.
Yes, the climate is changing, and we are part of it. But there are so many cycles superimposed upon one another, and so many other influences than just CO2 (Industrial Revolution) that just what impact we are having is not measurable today. Wait till you see what the influence of wind farms and solar panel farms will be on local weather and overall climate.
We want to fix the problem. But we are so fixated on there being a fixable problem that we aren't stepping back, taking a breath, and understanding just what is going on. All those flames fanned by Fox, CNN, NBC, ABC etc etc etc.
Best flora/fauna conservation decisions were done by nature for YNP. Same for Jasper.
While buildings and towns encroach into wildfire zones, I hope all heeded the calls to evacuate and pray no one is harmed.
While buildings and towns encroach into wildfire zones, I hope all heeded the calls to evacuate and pray no one is harmed.
The Industrial Revolution started in the 1700s. The part of the Industrial Revolution where we started using gas as a resource started in the mid-1850s. It’s not surprising many record highs were set in the 1930s, considering they were barely any environmental regulations at the time. The Dust Bowl was also caused mainly by bad agricultural practices but that’s another topic. Also, as stated before, record highs is a useless stat to look at. Looking at average temp increases and the duration of those is a much more useful stat.
And our impact on climate is measurable. We have many scientific methods to know how the climate was stretching back millennia. it is scientifically recognized that the earth goes through fluctuations in temperature that our measureable through many environmental causes. The changes in climate occurring now cannot be explained by just those causes, and can be directly correlated to human activity.
Causes - NASA Science
Takeaways Increasing Greenhouses Gases Are Warming the Planet Scientists attribute the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century to the human expansion of the “greenhouse effect”1 — warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space. Life on...
science.nasa.gov
It is a fixable problem. Emit less greenhouse gases. Curb deforestation. Wean ourselves off of oil and gas as an energy source. I don’t know how that is not understandable
Bonasababy
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Do you all you folks selectively picking one weather measurement from one point in time know that climate is NOT the same as weather?
Bonasababy
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Well this is old news, but climate change has made the pine beetle problem WORSE.
Like I said earlier, the pathways climate change affects the earth are numerous--and many are totally clueless about them.
Climate Has Led to Beetle Outbreaks in Iconic Whitebark Pine Trees | U.S. Geological Survey
Temperature increases caused by climate change were a major factor driving the outbreak of mountain pine beetles that killed whitebark pine across millions of acres in and around Yellowstone National Park in the early 2000s, according to a new study.
“Our research shows that warming shortens the time between beetle generations, supercharging beetle population growth. That can then spur catastrophic mortality in forest systems during drought in the Sierra Nevada and throughout the Western United States.
If the effects of compromised tree defenses (15% to 20%) and increased bark beetle populations (20%) are additive, the team determined that 35% to 40% more ponderosa pines would die from beetle attacks for each degree Celsius of warming.
They found that a quicker rate of producing new generations of off-spring contributed more to killer infestations than did surviving the winter in the absence of cold temperatures fatal to the beetle, yet, surprisingly, the increase in the number of generations was not very big.
“In the Sierra, we saw only about one-third more generations per year, but that really amplified mortality,” Robbins said. “It shows that a small impact in the success of these populations can have a big impact on tree mortality, where we previously thought the beetle needed one whole generation increase to substantially impact mortality.
Bonasababy
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Climate change impacts are variable. It's clear its getting warmer and getting warmer faster than ever before. But is it getting warmer and wetter or warmer and drier? That varies across the continent. Not sure everywhere has a clear trend yet either.
In MN, data--and our state climatologist--says we are seeing precipitation--and more of it--fall at different times of the year than we have historically. FWIW--check him out. Kenny Blumefeld. He's great, and an engaging speaker, plenty of info from him and partner Mark Seeley online and at the state website. https://climateapps.dnr.state.mn.us/index.htm
Snow pack starts later, and the bigger snows have moved more towards the end of winter and early spring. Meanwhile, the frequency of huge gully washers in the Summer when it used to be drier--has gone way up. Last I heard I believe they thought rains were not coming as consistently either--so you could rains that wash out bridges and roads and flood rivers in June--like we just had--then go into an extended much lower than rainfall period and into drought later in summer.
My lawn a few weeks ago was as green as it's been ever at this time of year. It's already starting to brown out--something that isn't uncommon but that usually starts in August, not July.
antlerradar
Well-known member
My great grand father told about a fire that burned almost everything between Powder River and Tongue River. That being said, I do think that fires of the last 25 years have been bigger and burn more intensely. There are many reasons for this other than climate change. My experience is with SE Montana, but it is likely these reasons apply to other places too.
In the order that they come to mind.
One hundred plus years of aggressive fire suppression. This has allowed fuel to build up to the point were any fire is difficult to control. One look at old pictures taken 100 years ago and the same place now and the number of trees today is the first thing you will notice. Where once there was mostly grass land is often now a forest. All adds up to a lot more fuel for a fire to burn and to make matters even worse all that fuel is competing for about the same amount of rainfall and this translates into lower fuel moisture percentages even on the wet years. ( the thirty year average rain fall for Broadus has actually increased a little since the 80's.)
More critical infrastructure. Protecting infrastructure like houses and other improvements take priority when it comes to fighting fire and they suck resources that could have been used to to put out the fire. Infrastructure also effects the way you fight a fire. You can not just set a backfire if you are likely to endanger someones house with the backfire. I have seen first hand how infrastructure negatively effects firefighting efforts in SE MT. I can not imagine how difficult firefighting would be now in places where the amount of infrastructure has exploded.
Fire Fighters are less aggressive today than when I first started in the early 80's. Back then we did more firefighting at night. This is not a knock on today's firefighters. Now it is safety first. For example on the recent McGee fire we might have kept the acreage burned much lower if we had burned out the north line on Sunday night. Not doing the burnout however was the right call. We might have compromised the west line and when the thunderstorm blew in from the south with thirty mph wind we might have gotten someone killed. No amount of grass, timber and money is worth getting someone killed.
Better grazing practices. The old grazing practices where the rule of take half leave half the grass was you left the half that is in the ground is long gone in most places. No there are much better grazing management and this results in more fine fuel to carry a fire and the fire will burn more agressively.
It's not all bad. Back when I started gardening, I was happy if my corn followed the old rule of "knee high by the 4th of July" Now with the longer growing season my corn is head high by the 4th of July. I like to grow pumpkins and squash and I use to figure that if the pumpkin set by the end of August it had a chance to ripen before cold weather set in. Now mid-September is my cut off point.
Hunting weather is less enjoyable. I haven't been rained on during archery season since I don't know when, pretty much always hunting in 90° weather these days. I used to like hunting the late muzzle loader season because I could hunt in the snow. Now it's usually shirt sleeve weather. But I guess we just adjust until we can't adjust anymore.
Hunting weather is less enjoyable. I haven't been rained on during archery season since I don't know when, pretty much always hunting in 90° weather these days. I used to like hunting the late muzzle loader season because I could hunt in the snow. Now it's usually shirt sleeve weather. But I guess we just adjust until we can't adjust anymore.
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