Is there a "point creep" solution?

[ImBillT]

Exactly wrong, I'm afraid. As an "older hunter", I'll die before I have enough points, and I've been collecting them for nearly a decade.

Points may not have put a tag in your pocket yet, but if you have ten years worth of points, then you’re only fighting the demand that existed ten years ago, while someone with zero points has to first wait ten years, and then they get to fight the demand that exists today.

Frankly we should all be fighting the demand that exists today. Random with 2-3 choices like NM is the way to go.

 

[brymoore]

Pretty sure that if we get the much feared recession that every economist is predicting we are doomed to get, we will see tag demand drop off significantly.
This probably won’t help with the LE primo elite units, but for those guys like me who just like to hunt with a gen tag it certainly will.
Remember that just a few short years ago anyone could get a MT or WY gen tag without much hassle. Then with economic boom times, of course tag demand exploded and now even gen tags are tough to draw. I expect a reversal of this as the economic situation continues to sour.

We’re in a recession now. They’ll tell you about it in July.

 

[TNHUNTER]

I believe you meant they’ll tell us about it in mid November….

 

[CowboyLeroy]

I say if you turn your tag back you don't get a point

 

[BuzzH]

I think application fee of $50-$150 per species, must apply for a tag to get a point, and having to front the full tag fees would separate the serious from the pretenders real quick like.

 

[Flatrock]

You know what has had basically ZERO point creep the last 10 years? Special priced Wyoming cow elk tags(doe antelope and deer too). Hell you can still draw nearly all of them 2nd choice. Why? Obviously because they're very expensive.

That's kind of an extreme case but price is about the ONLY way to slow point creep. Well, a recession would help too. Going to a random draw does not fix the problem. Not saying big price increases are the right thing to do, but just about every other idea does nothing. Making a person pick only one species to apply for would help but I wouldn't be a fan of that.

Also, there aren't many tags in all of the western states that don't allocate at least 1 tag to everyone in some sort of hybrid system. Wyoming has VERY few units that don't allocate at least one tag in the random draw. And if you need to have a chance of drawing every uber primo tag in every state in order to be happy, well then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[BuzzH]

The problem is everyone applying everywhere because it's cheap, easy, and you can put it on the plastic.

 

[Kearnsie14]

I think application fee of $50-$150 per species, must apply for a tag to get a point, and having to front the full tag fees would separate the serious from the pretenders real quick like.

I think 2 and 3 are no brainers…I wish all states operated like that. Number 1 is a really interesting suggestion. I think people would think long and hard about carpet bombing applications if they knew that $100 was disappearing without refund win, lose, or draw on every application.

 

[runningmt]

I think 2 and 3 are no brainers…I wish all states operated like that. Number 1 is a really interesting suggestion. I think people would think long and hard about carpet bombing applications if they knew that $100 was disappearing without refund win, lose, or draw on every application.

Idk, in the age of $600 coolers, $90,000 trucks, $500 boots, $6000 rifles, and ammo approaching $5 a round, I don’t think a hundo is really that big of deal to most.

 

[Kearnsie14]

Idk, in the age of $600 coolers, $90,000 trucks, $500 boots, $6000 rifles, and ammo approaching $5 a round, I don’t think a hundo is really that big of deal to most.

Yes, that’s true for many. I’d be curious as to how many applicants are in the “money is no object” category versus how many are more cost conscious.

 

[BrentD]

Idk, in the age of $600 coolers, $90,000 trucks, $500 boots, $6000 rifles, and ammo approaching $5 a round, I don’t think a hundo is really that big of deal to most.

I don't even know ONE of those guys, much less come close to qualifying myself. A bit of hyperbole there.

 

[runningmt]

I don't even know ONE of those guys, much less come close to qualifying myself. A bit of hyperbole there.

I don’t qualify either, but but the topic is how to fix point creep. Enacting a $100 fee won’t touch it.

Demand vastly exceeds supply, and it’s getting worse, there’s many in the mix with a ton of expendable cash.

 

[406dn]

There is really no system that can be devised that can rectify the chasm between the demand and the supply. The point system tries to give credit for years of trying without success. It breaks down since such a small number of tags are awarded each year.

That said, I am not in favor of just scrapping the system when the overwhelming majority of hunters have been competing in that system, some for many years.

I can understand where hunters with no points think a totally random draw is the way to go. While it is not likely that the point system will ever help me draw a bighorn tag while my vigor could handle the hunt, I have been faithfully applying for a ram tag for 40 years. Since the point system recognizes that effort, albeit imperfectly, I don't want it just trashed either.

I would agree with BuzzH that the application fees for sheep, goats, and moose should be structured in a way to at least partially winnow the serious from the curious.

 

[Shangobango]

I can understand where hunters with no points think a totally random draw is the way to go.

In fairness, a lot of us that have quite a few points think that random is the way to go. I am not sure it is fair to characterize this as a “haves vs. have nots” situation.

 

[BrentD]

I don’t qualify either, but but the topic is how to fix point creep. Enacting a $100 fee won’t touch it.

Demand vastly exceeds supply, and it’s getting worse, there’s many in the mix with a ton of expendable cash.

There are a ton of ways to fix point creep. But few if any will agree to them.

 

[Shangobango]

I don’t qualify either, but but the topic is how to fix point creep. Enacting a $100 fee won’t touch it.

Demand vastly exceeds supply, and it’s getting worse, there’s many in the mix with a ton of expendable cash.

Just thinking out loud here…

Let’s say that some states go all out in their efforts to quell point creep by making hunters apply to get points, front the tag fee, and add hefty application fees. I think that would surely help point creep but I also think that a large percentage of the folks we would be losing from the application process would be those with the least amount of disposable income. Is that a sacrifice that we should be willing to make? I am torn.

Then again, I doubt that I would be applying trying to get points for DEA in half a dozen states either under those circumstances and I make decent money and have very few monthly expenses when compared to a lot of people.

I only have a couple of weeks a year to spend on hunting out west. It would sure make planning a challenge if I slipped up and pulled 3 tags. That would be the same for straight random draws too though…

Maybe a point only option but you still have to apply and front the full price for the tag like some States used to be?

It would definitely make me focus in on certain species and certain states, which would mean going to forced applications with the money paid upfront would probably work to quell apps from people in a wide range of financial situations.

After thinking about this some more I am more lost on finding a good answer than ever.

 

[TNHUNTER]

Can you have 2 different systems for one state? Points for one system, random on the other? You chose which one to "play" in but only one. That way folks that have points still have a shot but those newer or don't want to also have a shot via random?

 

[rogerthat]

I think application fee of $50-$150 per species, must apply for a tag to get a point, and having to front the full tag fees would separate the serious from the pretenders real quick like.

This and one application per state…pick a species. Like Idaho does. I love that

 

[WapitiBob]

As a non resident, the last thing I want is the 60,000 people who have Antelope points and never apply for tags, to suddenly start applying for tags.

 

[BuzzH]

This and one application per state…pick a species. Like Idaho does. I love that

For NR's I agree.