Ironic front page

[duckhead59]

hey guys....my intention wasnt to promote political idealism, whos right, whose wrong, whos good or bad. I personally dont like bush...nothing about him. I'm not a Kennedy fan either. In fact, I'm not a fan of very many politicans regardless of which side they are on.

rosco...your statement is a great one for people to ponder...

""The Rathergate scandal should be taught in journalism schools, if it is not already. What is really scary is that we will never know how many stories have been run in the media that were based on equally flimsy and even fraudulent information.""

my humble opinion is that very little is straight up truth...shock journalism is the way of the media no matter whether fox, cnn, cbs or any of the others...they embelish stories to promote idealology, for scare tacics and ratings...it should all be taken with a grain of salt and an alkaseltzer...or even just ignored.

 

[AZ402]

Laura Bush killed as many, or more, people with her car than Kennedy.

At least she didn't flee the scene like a coward.......

 

[noharleyyet]

...from cj's astute post link::

After finishing ninth in a field of 31 in a regatta, Kennedy spent a Saturday partying with six unmarried women and a group of married men. Pounding rum and cokes, Kennedy absconded from the booze barbecue with Mary Jo Kopechne, whom he drove to her death off a narrow, unlit bridge without guardrails. For almost ten hours, the senator dried out, called numerous acquaintances, and tried to get his cousin to go along with a cover story that Kopechne had been alone at the wheel -- but did nothing to alert authorities to his party companion's plight. Political fixers fixed him with a neck brace, produced a renewed driver's license for the unlicensed senator, and released incomplete phone records -- exposed by the New York Times a decade later -- that erased the calls he made between the time of the accident and the time of his reporting it. Characteristic of the treatment he had received his whole life, Kennedy avoided jail and overwhelmingly won reelection the next year. His mother responded by initially disinheriting Ted's cousin, her orphaned nephew, who refused to go along with her son's subterfuge.

duckhead, you screwed the pooch with 'respected'...you respect this douche?

 

[JB]

Bush did cocaine. there are also rumors he raped a declawed cat....who had cancer and a wooden leg.

.....: carry on with your fishing trip NHY.

 

[JoseCuervo]

...from cj's astute post link::

Astute ???? From American Spectator???? LMAO...... that is funny. Only a Texan would think of that as "astute".....

 

[JB]

Astute ???? From American Spectator???? LMAO...... that is funny. Only a Texan would think of that as "astute".....

are you tying to bust NHY's balls or just gently play with them as usual?

 

[noharleyyet]

are you tying to bust NHY's balls or just gently play with them as usual?

shhhh!...yer sceerin' the fish...

 

[JoseCuervo]

shhhh!...yer sceerin' the fish...

If you want to read something "astute", read The Jewish Redemption of Kennedy by Marc Ambinder. It explains the active part of redemption in Judaism instead of the random acts of redemption in Christianity. And, It even addresses old people like yourself who couldn't MoveOn.

The Jewish Redemption Of Ted Kennedy
There are, too, second lives in politics. From Alexander Hamilton onward, wayward politicians have found ways to sufficiently redeem themselves, regardless of the offense. In 1969, Sen. Ted Kennedy's compulsions and addiction caused the death of an innocent woman. Long a critic of the power of the privileged classes, Kennedy found it very convenient, that night, to be privileged.

In thinking about Kennedy's legacy, it is not sufficient to note that, by the time he died, he had won political redemption beyond his wildest fantasies. The fact outrages those who dislike Kennedy, and it is often accepted, even uneasily, by those who embraced him later. Do not equate political redemption with popularity. They aren't the same thing. Kennedy was very liberal, and seen as such, and he was never a universally revered figure. At most, about half of Americans had a favorable view of him.

Aside from ideology, which doubtless influences perception here, there is a brutal calculus at the heart of one's assessment of Kennedy: did his latter years make up for his serious, harmful transgression? How one answers that question, I think, is as much a matter of how one views redemption.

Mark Lilla, in The Stillborn God, describes two forms of rebirth: a "Jewish" redemption where one's works and deeds promote a redeemable soul -- one that awaits the Messiah -- and a Protestant "Christian" redemption, where the expiation of one's sins are entirely the province of God, and not necessarily intelligible or accessible in our earthly lives. At the risk of bastardizing Lilla's metaphor, and the complexity of Jewish and Christian theologies, it is sufficient to say that redemption for Jews is an active, continuing process, one where doing good will hasten the coming of the Messiah.

In America, mostly Christian, we're most fond of spiritual redemption, but successfully redeemed politicians have tended towards the Jewish model -- work, work, work, work, even if, as Kennedy certainly did, they identified as a Catholic or a Christian. (I realize there is a Catholic quality to this Jewish redemption of which I write, but Lilla's "Christian" redemption is Reformationist.)

Americans tend to be skeptical when politicians, after being unmasked, put on different masks. Becoming a born-again Christian is a necessary step for some politicians, but it usually is never enough. If there's a redemptive best practice, it would be to cultivate an image of humility; be humble and gracious; and plunge yourself into work. It allowed Kennedy to rise above the limitations of his partisanship. He became more influential among his colleagues than he was outside the Senate, and yet -- that was enough.

Southern Baptist Bill Clinton's rehabilitation is a work in progress, but Jewish in its character: he keeps his mouth shut and does good works. He's not proselytizing a way of life; he's simply trying to improve the lot of the collective. And Americans, perceiving this, (and the passage of time), have shown him favor.

In some ways, Kennedy is an exception to the norm. He was so famous -- and so much a part of the political narrative at the time -- and his deed was so shocking -- and his recovery and taming so complete by the time of his death -- that he defies characterization. The trauma of Chappaquiddick stayed with the Kopechne family, but Americans, having punished Kennedy by ending his presidential ambitions, seemed to move on. For a younger generation of Americans, Kennedy was, at worst, a punchline -- the inspiration for a character on the Simpsons. Kennedy's later carousing, which didn't end, by most reports, until 1992, was fodder for comedians. The soothing effect of the passage of time cannot be underestimated.

Redeemed politicians often find it hard to talk about their transgressions, and the public, while insanely curious to hear about them, doesn't seem to judge a politician who never quite meets the apologetic threshold. I think we enjoy hearing sinners grovel for the spectacle. The behavior that comes after the apology -- that seems to matter. Words mean less than deeds. Kennedy spent the rest of his life fighting against privilege. He knew his family legacy aided his career in so many ways; he knew that its wealth and influence probably helped him avoid legal penalty; he was already ambivalent about what the Kennedy name did to those who held the legacy -- his two brothers were assassinated -- but he seems to have realized, or believed, that he would always chase expiation, that he had tarnished the family, and that he could do nothing but work, work, work, work to give back the privileges that he was afforded. It is no accident that the working poor in America see Kennedy as their hero.

 

[noharleyyet]

How many liberal idiots could care less about a non-sensical warm fuzzy highly speculative hired-gun liturgical dissertation? Hell, they'll still write-in his sorry dead azz on the next ballot.

...fact...keep nibbling junior, .

No?

 

[AZ402]

If you want to read something "astute", read The Jewish Redemption of Kennedy by Marc Ambinder. It explains the active part of redemption in Judaism instead of the random acts of redemption in Christianity. And, It even addresses old people like yourself who couldn't MoveOn.

Jose's gayness knows no boundries..........Fin, you ever going to give us that who gives a shiv forum for JC's crap?

 

[duckhead59]

noharley...so I delete "respected", happy now?...
I still hate bush...and hes ignorant. I dont listen to the rhetoric of conservative news/commentators, and I think bush and his regime did a lot of damage to this country in the decline of US manufacturing, catering to large corp and finacial institutions, erosion of individual rights and disgrace in world standing...history will tell. btw...I'm a registered republican so dont lay a line of whiny democrat, liberal horse shit on me.

 

[duckhead59]

jose...interesting reading...thanks for posting...it hits directly what I meant when I referred to "respected"...like the article says...doesnt mean I/ agree or forget...just that he did work hard and kept a pace most of us couldnt imagine to help a lot of people...and that earned him 'respect' as a person in his field.

 

[noharleyyet]

jose...interesting reading...thanks for posting...it hits directly what I meant when I referred to "respected"...like the article says...doesnt mean I/ agree or forget...just that he did work hard and kept a pace most of us couldnt imagine to help a lot of people...and that earned him 'respect' as a person in his field.

...damn, I wish someone would make up your mind for you.

Congrats on the new pilot fish Jose.

 

[JoseCuervo]

NoHarley,

Do you "respect" the work and effort Kennedy put in the last 3 decades? Do you see "redemption" in his soul, or do you cling to your "astute" commentary that CJ spoonfed you?

When you think of "drunk driving", whisky, cocaine, dead bodies, do the names George and Laura Bush come to the front of mind? Or do you believe, somehow due to their "born again" conversion, that their souls are somehow worthy and you ignore the facts, and cling to some inferiority complex?

 

[smalls]

Would anything Ted has done over the last three decades matter if it was your daughter Jose?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Would anything Ted has done over the last three decades matter if it was your daughter Jose?

If it was your son that was killed by Laura Bush, would any of her actions matter?

 

[smalls]

I'm not defending anyone Jose. One person's negligent acts makes other's negligent acts no more defensible. The fact you are more interested in defending someone who killed a young woman while driving drunk, covered it up and went unpunished than a guy who illegally located and killed a sheep is messed up.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Smalls,

Do you believe in redemption? Can one perform good works in life and be credited for them, or should one just sit around continuing to drink, torture, lie, and then seek salvation later by calling themselves a Born Again from Texas?

 

[smalls]

Jose, do you prefer roller blades or roller skates to skirt around the issue?

 

[noharleyyet]

Inferiority complex and age seem to be your recurring themes Jose. You wouldn't happen to be one of those decrepitating middle age keyboard warriors with vicarious wannabe tough guy fantasies, would you?

Who's to say that that someone better than a mysogynistic drunk whos office his dada ALSO bought would not have actually earned your respect rather than your blind subserviance to lockstep idealogy?