Invasive Mtn Goats in GTNP have to go

[Doublecluck]

What a waste, I know a bunch of folks who would gladly help with this eradication and pay for the opportunity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-02-26/grand-teton-36-mountain-goats-killed-in-helicopter-shooting%3fcontext=amp

 

[Roadgoat]

At the end of the day, I reckon state management decisions should be determined by science, and not politics and special interests. Seems pretty black and white to me. Non-native goats, native sheep. Goats go, sheep stay. End of story.

 

[BuzzH]

At the end of the day, I reckon state management decisions should be determined by science, and not politics and special interests. Seems pretty black and white to me. Non-native goats, native sheep. Goats go, sheep stay. End of story.

Not that simple....and show me the "science".

 

[jmveverka]

At the end of the day, I reckon state management decisions should be determined by science, and not politics and special interests. Seems pretty black and white to me. Non-native goats, native sheep. Goats go, sheep stay. End of story.

At the end of the day, it is the killing of one animal in favor of another animal that happens to be more charismatic and better funded.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Man goats get the short end of the stick.

 

[geetar]

Man goats get the short end of the stick.

Yep! I love sheep but if it was non native wild sheep being slaughtered in favor of native goats people would be losing their minds.

 

[88man]

Good thing we don't have a non native invasive Horse problem or the Goverment would shoot them too

 

[EYJONAS!]

There sure seems to be more and more of the invasive goats showing up in places where it forces sheep out or they're just an invasive species like in ONP. Which has been ending in a cull of the goats. Not sure why one takes precedent over the other I suppose it's the $ figure of it. Which one is going to produce more for the state I guess?

The hard thing I have a time wrapping my head is goats are one of the slowest North American land mammals to reproduce offspring. Even when they do the morality rate of the offspring is fairly high so chances of survival isn't great. So why do they continue to cull them?

I hear a lot about goats force sheep out and while that maybe true not sure why the sheep win in the end. Both to me are equally as cool animal as the other. I'd have to say goats have the edge IMO.

 

[EYJONAS!]

For most people it comes down to which one's native.

A very large percentage of lower 48 goats live in areas where they aren't native, whereas (as far as I know) all bighorn herds live in areas where they are native.

Interesting.....I am not certain myself as I haven't read everything about bighorn sheep but there's some fairly well known areas where sheep weren't native and were transplanted themselves. I could totally be wrong. So let me ask this..... how are the Bridger Mountains a viable option for WSF and MTFWP to want to try and establish a sheep herd. In what is possibly one of the top three goat hunting district in the state? The goats were put there in the 50s if I'm not mistaken from the tobacco roots. In 2021 they want to say well I guess it's the blessed rams turn? What's gonna happen to those goats I wonder.

 

[geetar]

Interesting.....I am not certain myself as I haven't read everything about bighorn sheep but there's some fairly well known areas where sheep weren't native and were transplanted themselves. I could totally be wrong. So let me ask this..... how are the Bridger Mountains a viable option for WSF and MTFWP to want to try and establish a sheep herd. In what is possibly one of the top three goat hunting district in the state? The goats were put there in the 50s if I'm not mistaken from the tobacco roots. In 2021 they want to say well I guess it's the blessed rams turn? What's gonna happen to those goats I wonder.

Pretty sure those wild horse island rams didn’t just swim over there one day but I could be wrong.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Such as? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that none are coming to mind for me right now.

I think you need to think more long term. Sheep were extirpated from 95%+ of their habitat by European expansion.

The Bridger goats are non-native.

I hear ya and I agree. Pretty tough situation obviously to say the least. Both are a very cool and unique hard to want to annihilate one for the other, IMO.

 

[geetar]

Wildlife swims/crosses on and off the island all the time.

Sorry it was supposed to be more of a joke. If I read correctly in Duncan Gilchrist’s book Montana Land of Giant Rams Vol. 3 they were transplanted there. Point not being that sheep can’t swim but that they were put there and not a native herd. Like I said I could be wrong but pretty sure I read that right.

 

[geetar]

There's a big difference between transplanted and native/non-native.

If anything this thread highlights how little is actually known about bighorns, even sheep hunters themselves.

Ok you win. I got no claim of being an expert and I’m not gonna engage in a who knows more war when I was more just trying to joke with @eyjonas in the first place.

 

[mtmiller]

This conversation reminded me of a great book I have on the shelf.

Montana folks, I highly recommend this book if you can find a copy.

Montana's Wildlife Legacy – Montana's Wildlife Legacy

 

[EYJONAS!]

I just asked why one seems to take precedent. I thought it was more of a financial thing and I'm sure that the areas where native sheep are driven out by an invasive goat is one thing but there's some other areas where goats have shown up and are being culled as well. I guess I have a tremendous respect for the goats as well as sheep.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I’ve noticed that people with all the answers always call wolves “woofs”. It’s odd to me.

Perhaps there is more to those conversations than you realize

Urban Dictionary: woof

In the gay community, it's an adjective used to describe a sexy guy, but not the feminine kind of guy, but a more masculine guy; one who you wouldn't identify as being gay if you saw him on the street.

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

If you guys are looking to split hairs on technicalities I'll throw one your way.

Whether you have a bighorn living in a range it has always occupied or a bighorn transplanted to Florida it's still native.

The term your searching for is endemic.

I've worked in similar issues, where an Australian native plant species has been for one reason or another introduced to another area within Australia. In that case it's non endemic (not belonging to the area) and in those instances they can do as much or more damage to the environment as a non native species.

Who said an expensive degree in biology/ecology was for nothing!

 

[MITCHMO]

Perhaps there is more to those conversations than you realize

Urban Dictionary: woof

In the gay community, it's an adjective used to describe a sexy guy, but not the feminine kind of guy, but a more masculine guy; one who you wouldn't identify as being gay if you saw him on the street.

www.urbandictionary.com

Now that’s funny right there.

I’m the spirit of good humor should I get a shirt that says white lives matter to bring this goat culling issue to the attention of the general public?

 

[EYJONAS!]

Here we go

Now that’s funny right there.

I’m the spirit of good humor should I get a shirt that says white lives matter to bring this goat culling issue to the attention of the general public?

I'll take 2...... should say white lives matter teton and Olympic national park.

 

[geetar]

Here we go

I'll take 2...... should say white lives matter teton and Olympic national park.

Get your buddy Pete on that. I bet he could have Lyle draw it up in no time.