Insurance Claim Help - Please

[RemingtonRules]

You can use medical potential claims to your advanatage in negotiations. Don’t sign a release of medical until everything else is done.

 

[utah400elk]

The attorney route sucks but…I wan rear ended in Las Vegas and while it seemed like an insignificant accident to me…MRI showed major back issues with ruptured disk and herniated disks.

I had taken an MRI with contrast one month earlier due to cancer and no question it was caused by accident. The insurance company offered 8 K for total to settle. With attorneys, my settlement took two year and was more than 100K. Car was actually totaled with a twisted bent frame. Was a pain in ass (actually lower back) but I think the attorney was worth it. Ways days away from court when they settled.

The insurance was hanging their hat on other drivers statement. Gentleman could only speak Spanish but did say it was not his fault. With my attorney present, I told them I was stopped at a yield sign for traffic and the driver ran into the back of me. I then explained, as a criminal investigator, a guy told me once that he was innocent and not even involved in the murder I was investigating. However, after talking with the guy for two days, he drove me to the skeletal remains of the victim. The innocent guy is in prison for the rest of his life. Long story short…people lie. My attorney about fell over laughing and they decided to settle. He said he didn’t think there attorney actually wanted to cross examine me on the stand. Made me laugh.

The insurance company tried following me around and it got ugly.

 

[kansasdad]

Attorney = neighborhood of 40% contingency fee.

Local guys advertising makes the claim that you should end up with more in your pocket when using an attorney that have experience working for their client’s benefit compared to going it alone.

 

[belshawelk]

Lawyer up. Remember all insurance companies are about making money. While your is suppose to have your best interests I would still help them with that process by getting a layer.

 

[Chingon]

I'm not a lawyer, but if you're in here asking for free advice I gather it's not that serious...

With that assumption, I advise you NOT to lawyer up, yet. You can always lawyer up, and even threatening to lawyer up with consultation advice, but once that genie is out of the bottle then it's hard to put back in. And they do take a hefty bite of YOUR loss.

Start by looking up your state minimums. Look at your policy. Is it average? What coverages do you have for individual medical, property, etc? Those are your low hanging fruit values that the company will likely pay if it's serious enough.

I had a buddy get rear ended pretty bad. He was a little banged up but not too bad. He went tot he doctor's, did the PT thing for awhile, wrote a letter describing his PTSD/emotional issues, etc. Got state minimum in coverage for his injuries, without involving a lawyer.

Lawyers are like real estate agents - rarely do they provide value. They are looking to make the largest sum of money for the least effort in the least amount of time. These aren't always commensurate with your best interests.

 

[Tradewind]

Had a friend get rear ended at a construction stop at 60 mph by a texting driving who never
touched the brakes. Had a great truck and got abt 60% of it's value. insurance settlement
got used up by medical. The Whip lash was severe and now not able to work. Won a personal
injury settlement but the other side committed bamkruptcy. nothing paid .
Life turned upside down physically and struggling to make ends meet.

Insurance is just a big scam and any clown behind a wheel can wreck your life.I would be
very aggressive. no one is on your side

 

[NEWHunter]

Thanks for everything thus far guys. All greatly appreciated. Hoping to have the vehicle loss figured out by the end of this week. Still have to figure out if they’re covering our stuff in the vehicle and a rental.

Not looking forward to buying a new car in this market. . There’s a reason I buy at the end of the year.

Our insurance company and theirs is the same.

 

[VikingsGuy]

There are at least 50 material facts that would shape what you should do next, none of which we have in front of us and it doesn't make sense for you to share on a public hunting forum. But in general I offer the following thoughts:

• Talk to a lawyer with a good reputation and experience in this field (and preferably with that insurance company). It doesn't mean you have to hire them, but they will walk you through the important facts/laws/considerations to help you decide the appropriate path.
• People first -- was anyone injured, not just in your car but even in the car that hit you (if they are hurt they can argue you stopped unsafely)? This is where the financial risk really lies for everyone involved. If everyone was physically fine, cleared by docs and have no lingering aches/pains then a bunch of 0's got taken off the checks for this incident.
• If anyone was hurt or has lingering problems definitely talk to a good lawyer.
• Don't settle/waive early. Insurance companies who fear lingering injury claims will give you what you want on "small ticket" property loss to get you to settle/waive claims of much greater long term value such as disability. Make sure any injury-related settlement/waiver absolves you from claims from the other driver as well - it's America, everybody gets their own story and their own lawyer.
• If this really is just about how to appraise lost value in a totaled vehicle, it is hard to imagine hiring a lawyer will net-net pay off. Anecdotes about how you treat your vehicles really doesn't move the needle enough to pay for $300+/hr legal assistance.
• Be nice and respectful always. First and second line claims employees can just fall back on policy/procedure and don't have to give you a damn thing if you are a jerk. The jerk role is for your lawyer (and preferably not even then). If this is just a vehicle loss, then a little sugar goes further than vinegar when trying to get a claim employee to give you the benefit of the doubt on valuation. Insurance employees, law enforcement at the scene, the other party, your lawyer, their lawyer, court clerks, judges, doctors, nurses, therapists, experts, etc etc are people - you want them to root for you, not against you. Pissing folks off comes at a price and folks who are persistent and firm but always polite will almost always get a better outcome than a jerk. I have seen many legal situations where a jerk walks out with story of how they bullied their way into a good outcome without realizing they would have gotten more but for having pissed off the other side so much they never put their best number on the table.
• Talk to a lawyer, but don't "threaten" to talk to a lawyer. In most insurance companies that will end discussions with anyone who could work with you on the vehicle value claim and sends you over to the group set up to litigate claims. If you cry "lawyer" you will likely need a lawyer. Getting a lawyer may very well be the right choice, but idle threats will rarely improve your situation.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Still have to figure out if they’re covering our stuff in the vehicle

Your homeowner's/renter's insurance may also cover the damaged personal property if car insurance doesn't.

 

[IsThisHeaven?]

There are at least 50 material facts that would shape what you should do next, none of which we have in front of us and it doesn't make sense for you to share on a public hunting forum. But in general I offer the following thoughts:

• Talk to a lawyer with a good reputation and experience in this field (and preferably with that insurance company). It doesn't mean you have to hire them, but they will walk you through the important facts/laws/considerations to help you decide the appropriate path.
• People first -- was anyone injured, not just in your car but even in the car that hit you (if they are hurt they can argue you stopped unsafely)? This is where the financial risk really lies for everyone involved. If everyone was physically fine, cleared by docs and have no lingering aches/pains then a bunch of 0's got taken off the checks for this incident.
• If anyone was hurt or has lingering problems definitely talk to a good lawyer.
• Don't settle/waive early. Insurance companies who fear lingering injury claims will give you what you want on "small ticket" property loss to get you to settle/waive claims of much greater long term value such as disability. Make sure any injury-related settlement/waiver absolves you from claims from the other driver as well - it's America, everybody gets their own story and their own lawyer.
• If this really is just about how to appraise lost value in a totaled vehicle, it is hard to imagine hiring a lawyer will net-net pay off. Anecdotes about how you treat your vehicles really doesn't move the needle enough to pay for $300+/hr legal assistance.
• Be nice and respectful always. First and second line claims employees can just fall back on policy/procedure and don't have to give you a damn thing if you are a jerk. The jerk role is for your lawyer (and preferably not even then). If this is just a vehicle loss, then a little sugar goes further than vinegar when trying to get a claim employee to give you the benefit of the doubt on valuation. Insurance employees, law enforcement at the scene, the other party, your lawyer, their lawyer, court clerks, judges, doctors, nurses, therapists, experts, etc etc are people - you want them to root for you, not against you. Pissing folks off comes at a price and folks who are persistent and firm but always polite will almost always get a better outcome than a jerk. I have seen many legal situations where a jerk walks out with story of how they bullied their way into a good outcome without realizing they would have gotten more but for having pissed off the other side so much they never put their best number on the table.
• Talk to a lawyer, but don't "threaten" to talk to a lawyer. In most insurance companies that will end discussions with anyone who could work with you on the vehicle value claim and sends you over to the group set up to litigate claims. If you cry "lawyer" you will likely need a lawyer. Getting a lawyer may very well be the right choice, but idle threats will rarely improve your situation.

This is the most accurate post here. I have worked in auto insurance claims for 15 years.

If there are no injuries, and the claim is property damage only, there will be no attorneys involved. If you believe they are not valuing your vehicle appropriately, and it’s deemed a total loss, ask about diminishment in value. If you still disagree You can go to arbitration but thats at your expense and likely not cost effective. I have my carrier handle vehicle damages regardless of liability then have the insurance companies figure it out. If liability is clearly in your favor ask them to waive your deductible.

If there are injuries obviously it’s much bigger deal. Only you can decide if you want/need an attorney. I would use caution selecting an attorney. Many personal injury attorneys make money based on volume of clients. They run as many through as they can, then take up to 40%. The problem is many never litigate. They dont have the time and probably don’t have the expertise either. If I needed a personal injury attorney I would ask how many auto liability claims theyve litigated in the last couple years. This means they will go as hard as they need too to get the full value of your claim, including filing suit if needed. I’d also make sure they’re not going to farm it out to a lower level associate. Oftentimes on low complexity (not serious injuries) or low value (low $) claims they will farm it off while the handling higher dollar claims themselves.

Good luck to you. I hope everyone is alright.

 

[antelopedundee]

Good topic.

 

[NEWHunter]

Again, thank you to everyone that has contributed thus far - your, thoughts, knowledge, and perspective is all greatly appreciated.

A brief update. I closed the total loss on the vehicle a couple of weeks ago. One thing that became apparent through the process is that the insurance companies are in the business of making money, which includes minimizing what they pay out on claims. In addition, how you take care of your vehicle does matter to a certain extent - if you can prove it.

After a fair bit of wrangling and logic, and multiple rounds of back and forth, I was able to get the final number higher. The amount of the increase was worth the substantial time and energy I invested to get it. However, it still wasn’t the number I could justify based on the facts/info I got from my dealer and elsewhere. It was time to stop fighting that battle and move on to the next one.

I’d also note that it was frustrating to hear a couple of the arguments put forth by the adjuster - they were flat out wrong. If I weren’t well versed in how appraisals work I might have gotten buffaloed. Be diligent and thoughtful.

Next up is the property damage related stuff. We’re in the process of replacing things and submitting receipts. I’m hoping that will be wrapped up in a month or two.

Still riding the roller coaster of us all still being here but having to deal with all of this crap. Another week or so of dealing with one vehicle, then the new Outback is supposed to arrive . . . Hoping to be one of those guys around here that posts photos of their Outback loaded down from successful hunts.

 

[VikingsGuy]

One thing that became apparent through the process is that the insurance companies are in the business of making money, . . .

Every company and service provider is trying to make money. That is how employees get paid and investors are encouraged to fund the formation of businesses in the first place. If they gave every claimant as much as the claimant demanded, they would not make less money, they would raise the premium costs to all customers. In a gross oversimplification, the model is to collect an amount in fees close to the amount paid out in claims and invest the "float" to pay the costs of running and make a profit. If they paid whatever $$ customers wanted you would have paid more in premium all these years you didn't have a claim. You might have actually paid more over the long haul in fact.

You are in a risk-sharing pool - the more you expect to take from that pool the more others in the pool have to pay - and most years you are a payer, not a taker.

 

[DouglasR]

Every company and service provider is trying to make money. That is how employees get paid and investors are encouraged to fund the formation of businesses in the first place. If they gave every claimant as much as the claimant demanded, they would not make less money, they would raise the premium costs to all customers. In a gross oversimplification, the model is to collect an amount in fees close to the amount paid out in claims and invest the "float" to pay the costs of running and make a profit. If they paid whatever $$ customers wanted you would have paid more in premium all these years you didn't have a claim. You might have actually paid more over the long haul in fact.

You are in a risk-sharing pool - the more you expect to take from that pool the more others in the pool have to pay - and most years you are a payer, not a taker.

 

[more_cowbell]

They can also drag their feet paying anything out for as long as possible, so they keep that money longer, making money on it.

Once the OP gets an attorney, one thing the attorney should ask is what/where the OP has said anything to anyone about the potential claims -- this includes posting comments online.

Best wishes to the OP and family.