Immigration Moratorium

[Washington Hunter]

2fastnaz, I agree...stop rewarding them, and they will stop coming.

Dan, I have to agree with DS on the issue of whether Americans can and will do the low-paying menial jobs. What about high school kids? Don't they need to earn money for college? And like DS said, there are plenty of people on welfare that are more than likely capable of working. If for some reason they can't get enough fruit pickers at the wages they are paying, then I suppose they will have to raise the wages, right? And I'm sure you will argue that if they do that, the price of fruit will go up. To that I say, so what? The money the taxpayers of this country save will more than make up for that.

 

[danr55]

WH, When was the last time you saw a high school kid with a paper route? Been a while, eh.. That's because most of them don't want some menial job to earn a few bucks. They want to make enough money to buy a BMMR (BMW). They want to be Directors and VPs. College grads are worse. I'll go back to my original statement. Economically, it would be a disaster for this country if the illegals were turned out. I don't think they should be subject to any entitlements, but you can't just leave them out there to rot either... Most of them are honest, hard working folks who just want to get by and be left alone. It's a tough question and I don't think there are any quick or easy solutions.

 

[ElkHntinMD]

Danr,
Your right, you can't blame them for the population explosion but, The more we allow in the bigger the population, period! I'm not totally against immigration but, I will say our country is allowing far to many in! I work with one hell of a lotta different nationalities! I'm a Marine. That being said, why in this country do we have quotas for the minorities? I'm a simple man, and the way I see it, the job should go to the best qualified applicant, not a damn quota! Does it? Hell no it don't! Why would you give a job to someone less qualified simply because they are a minority? What the hell kind of sense does that make? We have quotas, all job's have some type of damn quota!! What is the logic behind that? So is it fair to American's To give a job to a minority? Keep in mind many of these minorities are Citizens. So if I apply for a job and it needs to be filled by a minority to keep the balance, and be fair where is that fair to me or anyone else? Minorities not only increase the population they also upset alot of balances in our society! And I only touched on one or two. And another big one I'm sick and tired of hearing is that we offend them!!!

Your in my Fuggin country I'm fighting for it and willing to die for it! So who the Fug am I offending? It's my damn country, I fight for it!! For what? So a minority can tell me I'm offending them in my country! An example: I can't remember where it was at but, I read something where a lady raised a big stink because she wanted to have her Vail on, or whatever they call the damn thing that covers their face, ON when she had her drivers license photo taken!! What the fug is that? It's a photo!!! Doesn't do much good if your face is covered! But yet we're offending them because in our Damn country that's the way it is! I have no problem with minorities! One may save my life! But, what I do have a problem with is allowing more in at the damn rate we are! I live in Wash. D.C.!! The number of minorities here and Virginia is staggering! Bottom line is, it's outta control and it needs to be curbed for several years! I'm not attacking you here Dan! This is just the way I see it!
ElkhntinMD

 

[Deerslayer]

Danr, my friend, read carefully. I did not say they were RESPONSIBLE for the population explosion, but rather was referring to the POPULATION EXPLOSION OF IMMIGRANTS INTO THIS COUNTRY. Hell, as far as I know, they may not even know how to have sex, but if you leta million in, then the population instantly just went up a million, and that's before you add and procriation that may or may not take place.

 

[Michaelr]

we need to get a handle on the illegal ones, first thing!!! I say start shooting them in the ass with rock salt.

In all seriousness, stop the illegals and alot of the problems will be solved.

then start cracking down on the friggin idiots who still find ways to employ the illegals, they raided a couple spud houses here a year ago, after they were done rounding up the illegals the friggin place was out of workers.
Maybe if they offered a Halfway decent wage, more of our citizens would work there??
they can get away with paying shit wages because they can always find a shitload of illegals who have no rights that will work for next to nothing.

 

[brokfut]

If we continue to import the very brightest minds from other countries we will not only continue to lead the world in inovation and production but we will in effect limit the rest of the world and prevent them from overtaking us in the areas of research and development because they will not have the minds to compete. As long as we provide the quality of life that we do every bright mind will want to come here to exercise their talents and be compensated for it. We as Americans will continue to be the best fed, clothed, housed and pampered people on the planet. We won't be able to read the menu at the MacDonalds, but we will be better off then 90% of the world.

 

[danr55]

I look at it this way. Stopping the illegals aliens is about like the drug war. THere is a lot of whooplah about what we are going to do, a lot of pomp and promises, but when it comes right down to it, nobody really gives a flying f*$k. The issue keeps people employed, it provides a place to reward political allies, and it gives the general public something to be occuppied with to keep them off of the real issues.

 

[cjcj]

the problem is ILLEGAL! i call gov`t official`s at least 5 times a week about this issue. they i.n.s. is a failure, sometime the cop`s will detain group`s of illegal`s[up to 40] at a time and i.n.s. refuse`s to respond,so the cops just let them go, maybe when they start getting your BIG GAME TAG`s you will get of your ass and call someone,or are you waiting until your state regulation`s are in both english and SPANISH!

 

[cjcj]

my last post was meant for all of you!

 

[Washington Hunter]

Good for you cjcj. Keep makin' those phone calls!

 

[danr55]

CJ,given the requisites for getting a hunting license and the draw system, I don't believe the illegals are much of a threat to hunting in Arizona. Most illegals are more interested in eating and a place to live and maintaining a low profile. You may not like illegals, but there are greater threats to hunting than they are.

I would suggest that perhaps your assessment of that threat is a bit overstated. I would consider the extremists on both ends of the political spectrum more of a threat... On one side, you have a bunch of bleeding heart liberals who want to take away your right to hunt to protect the animals and who would like to make you safer by taking away your firearms. On the other end are a bunch of hate mongers and insurrectionists who would have you overthrow the government just because they don't like the way it's run. I'm not sure who is the more dangerous. I would tend the think that the far right, racial war mongers and anarchists are the more dangerous right now, simply because they are less obtrusive.

 

[Washington Hunter]

But Dan, I think the point is that it is illegal, so why is the government not enforcing the law?

 

[danr55]

Who said they weren't? It's a matter of priorities.. Right now the priority is "Homeland Security" and "You tried to shoot my father". Those will continue to get the maximum attention until the issues are settled. Then it will shift to what ever GW or the power brokers behind him, set as the next priority.

Like I said before, drugs are illegal and we've been fighting the "War on Drugs" for 20 years. Do you think that there is any way a bunch of piss ant Columbian farmers could continue to spite the government of the most powerful nation on earth, if there was any serious movement to stop them? It's become as much a scam as cancer research. It provides jobs for hundreds of thousands of people and little nooks and crannies to hide hundreds of millions of dollars for "other activities". It is also a great way to keep the "common man" occuppied and away from what's really going on...

It's just the way the world works..

 

[cjcj]

well first of all the ILLEGAL`s are a huge threat! when the estimated 9 million,get amnesty,driver`s licence`s. etc, they become part of society, they have million`s of kid`s and then they start hunting and our kid`s have to compete with them for a limited resource[big game tag`s] not to mention the damage that these border felon`s have caused to ecosystem`s in southern az,can`t you see the cost of the illegal`s on healthcare? you want to get me started! this is a fact they will destroy the economy off this country down the road! just look at what they have done to the construction industry! painter`s. roofer`s,concrete, framer`s job`s that once paid 15-25 per hour now the illegal`s do it for 5-8 buck`s an hour. you think your getting cheap lettuce? well your not , have home prices dropped? no they keep going up while american`s go unemployed, why are your health care cost`s out of control[illegal`s] how about prison`s[30% illegal`s] not to mention crime that is affiliated with them, this is a country wide problem, check out the cuban`s that are in florida,full of disease, most were in prison, this isn`t about mexican`s this is about ILLEGAL~s who we don`t know any thing about are they good people? murderer`s? rapist`s , child molester`s? this argument is WAY outdated that they are all good hardworking people looking for a better life, 10- 15 year`s ago i never heard anyone spreaking anything but ENGLISH, now not 1 day goes by that i don`t hear someone speaking spanish, and i say if they are speaking another language then it`s 90% chance that they are illegal! and they should be arrested on the spot if they can`t prove that they are a citizen of this country, unless they have the proper credential`s, it`s about time we practiced[language profiling] if most of them turn out to be from mexico that`s too bad they have to go they broke the law[a felony] so they must all be deported, if not this country will implode! and by they way the illegal`s ARE to blame for the population explosian!

 

[danr55]

What planet are you living on? People speaking something besides English? Hell there isn't a week that goes by that I don't speak some language besides English. If you start profiling based on language, what's next? Profiling based on skin color? Or Eye color? or nose size or the shape of ears or type of hair?? That is beginning to sound like Germany in the 30's and 40's. If you're not Aryan, you don't belong. That was a crock of shit then and it's a crock of shit now. You can no more tell anything about a person by the language they speak than you can by the color of thier eyes...

As for the cost of health care.. that is largley driven by the drug manufacturers and the insurance companies. Not to mention the fact that pre-med students who get educated on student loans now have to repay those loans... The cost of a medical education has sky rocketed in the last 40 years.. along with the cost of every other kind of education. You want something to be concerned about, try finding out why 30 tablets of a drug called bactrim costs $90.00 and requires a prescription in this country and you can buy it across the counter in Israel for about $4.50 or in France for about $6.00. Ask Merck about that... When I asked I was told that prices are based on what the market would carry and someone had to pay for research... Most folks in the US of A have health insurance that pays the exhorbatant cost of medication, so the companies charge exhorbatant rates...

Ever been to a hospital? I was a few years ago after an accident. I happened to get a copy of the original bill, then I got a copy of the invoice sent to my insurance company. I got the second one by mistake. The bill they sent to me was $22,000.00 for two days and some testing. The invoice they sent to the insurance company was less that $8000.00. When I asked why, the lady at the hospital was really upset that I got the insurance invoice. After some discussion she admitted that in order to do business with the larger insurance carriers, they agree to certain "discounts" for services and supplies. That's why health care costs are up.. Not because of illegals... Most of them wind up at clinics anyway.. they don't want to risk getting caught and sent back...

Now, do you have any arguments other than they are illegals?? I don't like them coming into this country any more than you do, but I'm not going to demonize them because they do. Who knows. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would probably do the same thing...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-08-2003 09:03: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>

 

[Washington Hunter]

Come on Dan! You've got to know that Mexicans come across the border just to go to our hospitals and take advantage of free medical care. It's been on tv, it's been in the newspapers. I've read all kinds of stories about it happening. It's a big problem. What about that 17 year old girl that recently got the heart and lung transplant? Of course she got two sets of organs, because the doctor screwed up the first time and gave her organs that were of the wrong blood type. And I realize her mother was able to con some citizen into financing all or part of it. But still, she got organs that somebody else could have used. Why? She was here illegally. They should have sent her and her mother back to Mexico.

 

[danr55]

You're a hard man WH. You would condemn a 17 year old girl to death because of where she's born... I'm sorry. I can't buy that... and in the same breath you wonder why I am so quick to mention Doctors who screw up and kill people... Read what you just wrote...

 

[cjcj]

oh i see i`t`s ok to go rob a bank [to better our live`s!] no it`s a felony, but you can`t seem to understand that illegally entering the u.s.a. is a FELONY. now about language profiling what are you afraid of? that nazi germany thing is an old worn out argument also, it would never happen and you know it! and my nephew who is a doctor at a border hospital know`s that the illegall`s are costing hundred`s of MILLION`S, and i know that you know it too! why can`t you admit this fact. havn`t you heard that our own governor is pleading with the fed`s to reimburse AZ for million`s of dollar`s directly linked illegal`s? i you say you speak a differant language on a daily basis, why would you have to do this? is it` because your friend`s don`t speak english! how can you live in a border state and be so blind? haven`t you seen the new`s lately ? 40 -60 illegal`s held hostage in a house ,school`s shut down, swat team`s called out , how about the crime, you must live in a bubble. i`m talking about the cost`s of illegal immigration, not prescription drug`s, this problem will effect everything in our country slowly getting worse over time, do you even hunt/fish you don`t think that these illegal` will/can get big game tag`s? i probably can`t get thru to you anyway your way to liberal on this subject for me, and oh yea were are these right wing group`s that want to overthrow the gov`t? who are they ?

 

[Washington Hunter]

Dan, I feel sorry for that girl, but she is not this country's responsibility. We can't afford to help everybody in this world that needs help. Some other person may have died because they weren't able to get the heart and lungs that she got. An actual CITIZEN! Doesn't that mean anything to you? You're big on the Constitution, why don't you care about the people of this country? Why do we need to sacrifice our people for Mexico's people? How would you feel if your daughter was on a waiting list for an organ transplant, and this girl who was here illegaly got the organs that could have saved your daugher's life? I bet you'd think differently if that was the case.

 

[MarlandS]

Some may find this interesting... http://www.citizenslobby.com/