Idaho Bill HO536 - Changing Trespass Law

[smarandr]

From an email alert I got from TU this morning:

House Bill 536 is a whopping 15 pager that turns trespass law on its head. The bill would increase fines for trespassing, which most sportsmen would support. It goes a step further however and carries a felony charge for trespassing three times in 10 years. That may just be a step too far. Especially when the bill simultaneously removes requirements for private landowners to post private land. Yes, you read that right. It is akin to making speeding a felony and then removing all the speed limit signs.
Since the 80s, landowners have had to mark their private property with “NO TRESPASSING” signs or orange paint every so often so a passerby would understand that ignoring such signs would mean the risk of a criminal and civil violation. The “Orange Paint Law” was the result of collaboration and consensus among sportsmen, landowners, and agricultural interests as the best way to prevent trespassing. It’s pretty simple: You see a posted tree, behind that tree is private land. You cross that line, you risk jail time, fines, and loss of hunting privileges.

HB 536 would make it hard, if not impossible in some situations, to know the exact location of property lines by removing this long standing requirement.

The bill states that any reasonable person will determine that an unmarked fence means the other side is private. As you know, fenced and cultivated lands are off limits. But in Idaho, there are thousands of miles of fencing across public grazing ground, which do not delineate private property lines. Eliminating posting requirements will cause undo confusion and worsen relationships among Idahoans. Many landowners for example, have no objection to hunters being on some or all of their property. This bill places the burden on sportsmen to guess as to whether they are on public or private ground and further speculate whether the potential private landowner will come after them with a civil lawsuit or criminal charges for something as innocent as retrieving and dispatching a wounded animal.

But here is probably the most important aspect of this bill- there was no formal invitation to collaborate and formulate a bill to address trespass problems. It’s easy to understand how troublesome trespassing can be for a landowner, which is why an increase in fines isn’t necessarily a bad thing- honest sportsmen will still avoid trespassing, close gates, and respect livestock. Sportsmen are willing to come to the table and resolve such issues. But legislation that makes such broad strokes without public input is not the Idaho way of resolving issues.

For these reasons HB 536 needs to be defeated. It is currently sitting on the 3rd reading calendar in the House chambers and could receive a vote as early as Monday, February 19th.

We need your help! Contact your House Representatives today and ask them to vote NO on HB 536!

 

[RobG]

The MT legislature tried to sneak past a similar law removing posting requirements and turning accidental trespassing into a criminal offense. A lot of people didn’t have a problem with it, but enough people wrote in that it failed.

 

[smarandr]

I called and emailed both of my reps this morning. Hopefully this one fails too. However, I'm guessing this has the backing of Idaho Farm Bureau, and if I'm right about that it's probably a foregone conclusion the bill passes.

 

[brymoore]

I sent messages to my reps. Sponsoring Rep has the Wilkes Brothers property in her district.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

What a chicken shit bill, guess that's what happens when the Wilkes brothers are in your pocket.

 

[dbusta]

I hope it will pass

 

[onpoint]

I hope it will pass

Would this be a similar situation to the Colorado streambed ownership issue and waygoner's position regarding said issue???

 

[dbusta]

we need way higher fines in idaho. i let kids hunt on my place. my place is posted but people still tresspass

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

I'd like to see them do something about landowners posting areas that they don't own either. I hunted a fair amount of area this year that had trespassing signs all over it but the boundaries ended about 1000 yards away, contact law enforcement about it... Crickets. If you own land and don't want people on it break out the spray paint.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

we need way higher fines in idaho. i let kids hunt on my place. my place is posted but people still tresspass

I also agree with this, trespassers should be fined highly.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

one more note, the Wilkes brothers bought an absolute sheetload of land and now because they don't want to mark every 660 feet as private aka spray paint it orange we all have to pay the price, big shocker that money can you buy you whatever laws and politicians you want in Idaho can't wait to see what other bs "Laws" will be introduced now.

 

[RobG]

we need way higher fines in idaho. i let kids hunt on my place. my place is posted but people still tresspass

Higher fines are fine, but this would remove the need for posting. You'd have all the same problems, but people wouldn't even know they were trespassing.

 

[Josh Kuntz]

We do indeed need higher and more consistent fines for trespassing in Idaho. However, there are REAL problems with HB536. If the point of the bill is to add deterrents to trespassing why in the world does it make sense to remove the most recognized deterrent system for hunters, the orange paint posting system? Secondly, this bill makes ANY trespass a misdemeanor that a county attorney can pursue even if the landowner doesn't want to press charges. As written, simply stepping one foot on to private property without permission constitutes trespass. Meaning, it would be illegal to drive up to a ranch house to ask permission to hunt or fish. The attorney for the Association of Sherrifs testified that the bill was likely unconstitutional and would create all sorts of unintended consequences. The Farm Bureau and the Wilks attorney put this together and Judy Boyle happily sponsored it. As chair of the Agricultural Affairs committee she strongarmed her colleagues into passing it even though several of them expressed major concern.

To use an analogy appropriate for this group, they are using a 12 gauge to take aim at a problem that is best suited for a .22.

This would change bird hunting in Idaho dramatically and would certainly affect other hunting and fishing access.

I am not anti-landowner in any way but this is a bad bill being pushed by a few sneaky politicians and some greedy and powerful forces (Wilks and Farm Bureau).

Several sportsmen organizations (TU, IWF, BHA and ISA) have asked for law makers to simply put this on hold and let us collaborate on a reasonable plan. We have been shut down and Rep Boyle is trying to push this through as fast as possible before we can mobilize resistance.

 

[JM77]

Wyoming law requires that hunters and fisherman know where they are at and has for as long as I can remember. There is no requirement to have private land posted, although most still do. It should be our responsibility to know where we are and with gps technology that isn't an issue.

I'm not sure what all this Idaho bill says, but that part shouldn't be a big issue for law-abiding sportsman.

 

[Poke 'Em]

I completely agree. The onus should be on the hunter to know where he is, not on the landowner to have to spray paint every 600 feet. I cut my teeth hunting in Oklahoma. Nothing was posted. It was the days before GPS maps. Yet I always knew whose property I was on.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I emailed everyone I could think of last week. I only received one return email from Otter.
The beautiful thing about the current marking requirements in Idaho is all of the private ground that is intentionally left unmarked. In Owyhee co.there is a ridiculous amount of unmarked land mixed in with the public especially where two track roads cross small sections. Most people without a chip would never know they were on private and the owners are happy to let people use it.
This will immediately shut down access to a ridiculous amount of Owyhee County and I imagined numerous other counties

 

[RobG]

Wyoming law requires that hunters and fisherman know where they are at and has for as long as I can remember.

How about people who are just driving or hiking around?

A few things from my experience in Montana. 1) those GPS units use cadastral data that can be off my hundreds of feet. 2) The new lack of posting requirement would put a big burden on hikers who use trails that pass through private land because they would have to verify that there was an easement on the trail. Here this is quite common, especially in checkerboard areas. 3) Ditto with people driving on roads through private land. Do you want to verify every back road you drive on has an easement or the landowner doesn't care?

I lived in Idaho for 4 years and when I told people I was from Montana the hunting and fishing community generally remarked that Idaho used to be like Montana. It continues to lead the way in degrading our opportunities, and we use them as an example of what other states are doing.

Is there anyone in particular an out of state person can write too?

 

[Josh Kuntz]

Is there anyone in particular an out of state person can write too?

Any of you can write in to the idaho House leadership. https://legislature.idaho.gov/house/leadership/ This bill will soon get a vote in the full house and most house members are not well educated on this bill since it basically fell out of the sky very recently. Let them know that you are a non-resident hunter and this would influence your decision to hunt/fish in Idaho. Showing legislators that this could impact the Idaho economy may be of considerable help.

And food for thought for those of you who have mentioned that the onus should always be on the hunter, I would ask you to consider how often you have made an innocent mistake. I know that I have accidentally driven a ways down an unmarked private road or wandered slightly across an unmarked property boundary. Once realizing my mistake I have made my way back to public property and it has been no big deal because my unintentional meanderings are not currently considered trespass. However, if HB536 passes, these innocent mistakes are treated the same as "willful and intentional" trespass and the 3rd offense can result in a felony. To me, that feels like over-reach. As they say, "the devil is in the details" and the details of this bill are terrible.

 

[RobG]

Any of you can write in to the idaho House leadership. https://legislature.idaho.gov/house/leadership/ This bill will soon get a vote in the full house and most house members are not well educated on this bill since it basically fell out of the sky very recently. Let them know that you are a non-resident hunter and this would influence your decision to hunt/fish in Idaho. Showing legislators that this could impact the Idaho economy may be of considerable help.

And food for thought for those of you who have mentioned that the onus should always be on the hunter, I would ask you to consider how often you have made an innocent mistake. I know that I have accidentally driven a ways down an unmarked private road or wandered slightly across an unmarked property boundary. Once realizing my mistake I have made my way back to public property and it has been no big deal because my unintentional meanderings are not currently considered trespass. However, if HB536 passes, these innocent mistakes are treated the same as "willful and intentional" trespass and the 3rd offense can result in a felony. To me, that feels like over-reach. As they say, "the devil is in the details" and the details of this bill are terrible.

Are there any provisions to address my concerns about traveling on roads and trails though private land? If so, less people will use them and the landowner will have a much stronger case that they have been abandoned.

If I recall correctly, criminal trespass in Idaho can lead to your hunting privileges being revoked even if you weren't hunting at the time. Also, to be convicted of criminal trespass in Montana it has to be intentional. It sounds like Idaho effectively does away with this requirement. If so, that is a pretty big loss to your freedoms.

I'd appreciate any corrections to my understanding. There is nothing worse than writing the legislature with opposition based on erroneous information.

rg

 

[smarandr]

How about people who are just driving or hiking around?

A few things from my experience in Montana. 1) those GPS units use cadastral data that can be off my hundreds of feet. 2) The new lack of posting requirement would put a big burden on hikers who use trails that pass through private land because they would have to verify that there was an easement on the trail. Here this is quite common, especially in checkerboard areas. 3) Ditto with people driving on roads through private land. Do you want to verify every back road you drive on has an easement or the landowner doesn't care?

I lived in Idaho for 4 years and when I told people I was from Montana the hunting and fishing community generally remarked that Idaho used to be like Montana. It continues to lead the way in degrading our opportunities, and we use them as an example of what other states are doing.

Is there anyone in particular an out of state person can write too?

If it were me, I'd send a message to Governor Otter and ask him to veto the bill should it arrive in his desk.