ID F&G reform initiative starts anew

[Lostagain]

1, but then you have ALL areas being used. That was the whole point, now its back to just a judgement call. How is my judgement better/worse than yours? or susie's? or billy's? Who decides? mobrule.

Kinda where we're at now, and it is not working. Hell we have professional range mangers hired, let's use them.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Lostagain,

In another post, Troy asked about "Rancher Bashing", and I thought I explained that the term Welfare Rancher was reseved for those who use welfare (goverment grazing leases) to raise their cattle/sheep. That is how I use the term, and how I will use the term. I don't use the term to describe any other form of ranching. I am not sure if others who use the term have a different definition, but that is the one I use, and will continue to use.

Hope that helps, and I am not anti-ranching, as I own cattle, registered Herefords, and I enjoy working them, I just don't enjoy hauling them to the market the same day as some Welfare Rancher from Jordan Valley is bringing in his subsidized cattle, and hurts my sale.

I am also against, as a Hunter, the destruction of the habitat for Elk that happens on public lands. Hopefully you would be too.

And thirdly, I am against the subsidy of the grazing progams, with my tax dollars, to fund the range programs. The State of Idaho's grazing program, last time I heard, loses money for our school kids. Tell me that is great.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-31-2003 12:26: Message edited by: Elkgunner ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Lost, Just to set the record straight---when I refer to "welfare ranchers" I mean just those grazing public lands, whether it's federal or state. I'm surprised you don't know that.

 

[Lostagain]

Thank you Elk===

As I have been saying, you folks are whining about the welfare and the poor state of the range... the system of the BLM/Deptof Int is busted and needs to be fixed. The welfare rancher is just using the system and you guys are whining at them instead of fixing the system.
As for your ID schools losing money on the deal... sounds like that system needs reworked also.

 

[1_pointer]

LA- I was talking for research purposes. Take the same ecological site (as best as possible) and apply different management strategies to find the one that produces the needed amount while not making it worse. As far as lands as a whole, I do believe that their should be a tiered structure as to the uses available. This would create habitat for many species by producing a mosaic of successional states.

 

[Lostagain]

1, I think you and I are agreeing to pretty much the same thing. The mosiac teirs of levels of human intervention; from intense to nonexistant.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Lost,

I am not sure exactly what you meant in your post, so I went back and read your comments in the topic of "Big Game Auction and Raffle Tags", just so I could make sure I was able to read your style of writing....

(Just kiddin' on that...)

I hope I don't sound like I am whining, and not doing anything about it. As I explained in another post, these battles are being fought in the Court Rooms by groups like Jon Marvel and Western Watersheds Project. And, although I support the WWP efforts, I have actually found a much smaller organization, that is much more effective, and more efficent users of the fund raised dollar. These guys are incredibly efficient in converting contributions into victory in the court room, so I put my money/effort behind these guys.

To reform the BLM, could happen 3 ways, IMHO, and keep in mind we also have problems with Forest Service and State Land Board lands.
Option 1 would be with an Executive Order, and my guess is Bush is a bit busy right now, and caring about public land issues is not a priority, unless it is for drilling in Alaska.
Option 2 would be for Congress to pass a new law, requiring some change, and in Idaho, my elected officials are reluctant to take on the Welfare Rancher. Sen. Craig wil never consider it, and Crapo is a bit of a Paradox for me. One time he will do something bright, and the next day he will do something that makes me wonder... Just look at his Owyhee Initiative, with his broad cross section of groups. Hunters are represented by the "Blue Ribbon Coalition", a bunch of fat-assed ATV Riders, and Crapo specifically EXCLUDED Jon Marvel from the discussions.
And Option 3, for reforming the BLM, is to go to court, and force them. Right now, this is pretty easy, as the Judges, being required to uphold the law, are consistently siding with the plaintiffs on these actions.

So LA, if I am whining, I apologise. I personally feel this forum is a good area to read other's opinions, and allow me to ferment my thoughts and opinions.

And as for the School's losing, that one is amazing to me. In Idaho, the State Land Board is chartered with providing the maximum income, sustainable, to the Schools. The Board is made up of the State-wide elected officials, and they refuse to follow their Constitutional mandate. And when drug before the Supreme Court, by followers of Option 3, above, the Court forces them to put the School kids before the Welfare Ranchers.

It is just a bit cumbersome to make people uphold the Oath they took, if you have to keep dragging them to court.

Cheers,

 

[Ithaca 37]

Elkgunner, "I have actually found a much smaller organization, that is much more effective, and more efficent users of the fund raised dollar". Would that be The Idaho Sporting Congress? Most bang for your buck in the whole country!!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ithica,

No, not the ISC. I was referring to another one. My guess is they work with ISC. I know they work with IRU and WWP.

 

[Lostagain]

Thank you Elk== that was one of the most thought out posts I've seen. As you put, its quite the quagmire we're in.
The real problem from my view is whatever agency you deal with tries to throw a big blanket to cover everything and it is too cumbersome and always has too many loopholes.
The range needs to be managed to be self-sustaining. But, as you posted, there are mandates stipulating the range make money. Two different objectives.
In MT, recreationists need to buy another permit to use state lands( help pay for max profit).