I need to see the science on this one
- Thread starter Bigjay73
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rjthehunter
Well-known member
I've heard and read about some studies on this. I've noticed it with fish populations. When they lowered the limit to 5 sunfish on some lakes, within a couple of years, the sunfish quality tanked and they became significantly less abundant.
seeth07
Well-known member
You've personally noticed this or do you have research results?
Just as the title of the thread mentions, lets hear the science and research and not personal observations.
Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
Not sure that the rural coyotes are hitting the bird feeders, deer possibly, but bet that they are hard on the roaming house cats.
Here in Montana, wolves seem to be the only way to reduce the coyote population but it's not really a great trade.
Here in Montana, wolves seem to be the only way to reduce the coyote population but it's not really a great trade.
Sheltowee
Well-known member
Of note: the article is based on an interview with a scientist, who published a scientific study on the topic, in a scientific journal: https://nsojournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecog.07390
LIK2HNT
Active member
No science, but I read that BS yesterday. Coyotes are very adaptable, but if the population is increasing with hunting you are not hunting them enough. Think back to the ‘70’s and early 80’s when fir prices were high. Coyotes were hunted/trapped hard. We had some of the best mule deer herds and trophys back then.
BrentD
Well-known member
thanks for the link (but not that painful meme)...
This is an interesting paper and one with a couple suprising results. For instance, "Coyote abundance was higher where human hunting was permitted, and this relationship was strongest at local scales. "
I, for one, did not know humans were hunted anywhere in North America. This seems to counter their arguments that hunting BY humans raises populations of coyotes since human hunting would almost certainly reduce pressure on coyotes...
Some editors were asleep on the job apparently.
More seriously, the scale reversals of the effects of human development is interesting, but not surprising to me. Good to see it documented quantitively, however.
The article says it is a new study, but I read about this 30 years ago. The article back then was about coyotes in general and one of the things they noted was that the lower the population of coyotes the larger the size of litters born. They did note that because of this they felt that hunting pleasure had little to do with long term population trends.
Forkyfinder
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When I looked at the map - I didn't get a lot of confidence. To me - there's some serious questions about the areas are being compared - even if they are close in proximity - as i don't expect there are many regulations on hunting them in many places.
I'm not sure of many places in the west that you can't hunt them - so how would there be a controlled comparison in the same environment? If the comparison was say - yellowstone to winnett montana, of course wolves/bears will have a factor as will the totally different ecology. Some place on the edge of suburbia in Chicago vs rural Illinois will have some of the same issues. Way more Coyotes likely get hit in high traffic areas. For example.
I feel you'd need to not hunt and hunt a pretty large area in the same ecology/development over several years to conclude what the study did.
I'm not sure of many places in the west that you can't hunt them - so how would there be a controlled comparison in the same environment? If the comparison was say - yellowstone to winnett montana, of course wolves/bears will have a factor as will the totally different ecology. Some place on the edge of suburbia in Chicago vs rural Illinois will have some of the same issues. Way more Coyotes likely get hit in high traffic areas. For example.
I feel you'd need to not hunt and hunt a pretty large area in the same ecology/development over several years to conclude what the study did.
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WildWill
Well-known member
Dan Flores covers this pretty well in his book Coyote America.
Not science but coyotes are a special animal. They made it through a period of time when we tried really hard to kill them all. And I'm not talking just hunt them gone we took the gloves off and brought in bounties and poisoning. They are like cockroaches and I don't think you could extirpate them if you tried.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
I’ve read similar papers many times- Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana all with similar findings. Quick google search got me these, but there are plenty more. This has been documented since at least the 1970’s.
Fake news.
Forkyfinder
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Thanks. Just what I was looking for.
Coyote fur prices were crazy for a few years recently topping out at $120+ for premium coyotes. I think the peak hit $150. Bad eastern coyotes still got $30-$50 a piece. Coyotes were targeted hard by everyone. Didn’t change the mule deer situation and I still saw plenty of coyotes.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
I along with several other reputable anglers have noticed it.
I'm not a scientist. So I don't have scientific research results as a response. Just sharing my observations and experiences.
Sorry. I'll ask for your permission next time to share my experiences with something similar
Gellar
Well-known member
I'm just typing through my uneducated thought process here so I apologize if it does not make sense.
The second paragraph reads "Moll worked on the three-year study. He said hunting may reduce populations in the short term, but the lack of animals can also push more to migrate in to fill the gap." to me that is pretty simple predator-prey balance. When hunters kill more coyotes, the amount of prey (Food) will increase, thus will attract other predators into the area, but that in turn will decrease the amount of prey because the increased predators are eating more food so as the prey decreases the amount of predators will also decrease either through migration or starvation.
As the number of coyotes in the area increases thats going to attract more coyote hunters, who will in turn lower the population but after they move to another area the coyotes will rebound, appearing that they have increased their breeding in response to hunters.
Aldo Leupold noticed this on the kaibab plateau when he was assigned to kill any wolf or predator he saw to try and increase the mule deer population.
The second paragraph reads "Moll worked on the three-year study. He said hunting may reduce populations in the short term, but the lack of animals can also push more to migrate in to fill the gap." to me that is pretty simple predator-prey balance. When hunters kill more coyotes, the amount of prey (Food) will increase, thus will attract other predators into the area, but that in turn will decrease the amount of prey because the increased predators are eating more food so as the prey decreases the amount of predators will also decrease either through migration or starvation.
As the number of coyotes in the area increases thats going to attract more coyote hunters, who will in turn lower the population but after they move to another area the coyotes will rebound, appearing that they have increased their breeding in response to hunters.
Aldo Leupold noticed this on the kaibab plateau when he was assigned to kill any wolf or predator he saw to try and increase the mule deer population.
MThuntr
Well-known member
The abstract of this one is a pretty good read.
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