Hunters with ATVs cause thousands of dollars of damage to alpine tundra trail

[AlaskaHunter]

I use my ATV exclusively for snow plowing. Never leaves the neighborhood.

I avoid any area that is accessible by ATV as I want to get away from
competition and I've been successful by doing that.
Sweat-equity pays off in terms of not hearing another shot and not having some Bubba ruin a hunt. To me the wilderness experience is more important than killing and animal, but the likelihood of success in terms of killing an animal goes up tremendously when I get away from the ATV hunters.

All the trails in my boreal forest neighborhood were hikeable with leather boots 30 years ago. Now they require waders to cross the bottoms...
In much of Alaska the permafrost is insulated by an organic mat,
when ATVs damage that insulation, a negative feedback occurs of
quickly thawing permafrost, leading to ponding, and the water conducts summer heat,
leading to more thawing permafrost. An area that was hikable soon becomes a peat pond.
It takes a lifetime for that damage to recover.

 

[SFC B]

I am in the "I hate ATVs in hunting areas camp" Where we hunt in GMU 26 here is CO is a wilderness/non motorized area . There is one authorized jeep trail that dead ends where we camp. You are only authorized to drive on that and pull off to park. EVERY year for about the last 5 it has continued to get worse and worse with ATVs.....ignoring signs and driving up trails (including going over barriers), tearing up the existing trail and all the way to driving almost a mile straight up the middle of a meadow to pick up a deer. I have taken pictures and forwarded those to CPW with luke warm response to say the least.

My perspective is a little different than most, I think. From the time I started hunting the west (while still on active duty) I have had all kinds of physical issues and pain to deal with. I try to keep myself in reasonable shape and structure my hunting in relation to what I can do. I know a lot of it will be painful and strenuous for me, but it is the price that must be paid. I have a problem with people who are too fat and lazy ( almost to the MAN the folks we have encountered in our area meet this description-as well as being from other states) to be prepared for a hunt and the struggle it might entail. If you fit this description you should 1) Get in shape, put forth effort and earn your hunt or 2) Go on guided hunts where you have others to do a lot of the heavy lifting for you ....DO NOT just hemorrhage cash on a vroom vroom buggy so you can go around tearing stuff up, ruining others hunts and breaking the law because you can't be bothered not to be a POS.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

I am in the "I hate ATVs in hunting areas camp" Where we hunt in GMU 26 here is CO is a wilderness/non motorized area . There is one authorized jeep trail that dead ends where we camp. You are only authorized to drive on that and pull off to park. EVERY year for about the last 5 it has continued to get worse and worse with ATVs.....ignoring signs and driving up trails (including going over barriers), tearing up the existing trail and all the way to driving almost a mile straight up the middle of a meadow to pick up a deer. I have taken pictures and forwarded those to CPW with luke warm response to say the least.

My perspective is a little different than most, I think. From the time I started hunting the west (while still on active duty) I have had all kinds of physical issues and pain to deal with. I try to keep myself in reasonable shape and structure my hunting in relation to what I can do. I know a lot of it will be painful and strenuous for me, but it is the price that must be paid. I have a problem with people who are too fat and lazy ( almost to the MAN the folks we have encountered in our area meet this description-as well as being from other states) to be prepared for a hunt and the struggle it might entail. If you fit this description you should 1) Get in shape, put forth effort and earn your hunt or 2) Go on guided hunts where you have others to do a lot of the heavy lifting for you ....DO NOT just hemorrhage cash on a vroom vroom buggy so you can go around tearing stuff up, ruining others hunts and breaking the law because you can't be bothered not to be a POS.

I feel you here, all of this! You didn’t mince words, laid down some smack down. Let’s see if any fat sumbitch has the ignorance to fight you

 

[RobG]

If I recall correctly, in MT the fine for off road on BLM is around $100. A game warden told me that a hunting party will put money in a jar in case they get fined and openly go off road.

Increasing fines on MT state land doesn't seem to be an option given the multiple abuse lobby. I expect Alaska is even worse.
rg

 

[SFC B]

I feel you here, all of this! You didn’t mince words, laid down some smack down. Let’s see if any fat sumbitch has the ignorance to fight you

I am not itching for conflict but I have had very "direct" conversations with several of these nimrods. It is always the same ol same ...claiming ignorance and the old "I didn't SEE any signs" The last bunch were 4 dudes in a double cab Razor (not ONE of them under 300lbs) who had the stones to ride into out camp after we had just watched them drive in prohibited areas (these were the jackwagons that drove OVER the barrier ). I chewed on them for a few minutes, took pictures and cordially invited them to matriculate back to wince they came. It just seems to be getting worse

 

[Bert2368]

I have no problem with ATV use on the ATV user's OWN LAND.

Off road and off designated ATV trails, riding all over on public lands? The bad ATV riders ruin everything for the other 5%.

 

[shrapnel]

ATVs ruin the experience of the outdoors for everyone. You can't drive up and toss a stick of dynamite into a popular fishing lake because it'll help you limit out more quickly.

This sounds like the Kennedys and how they feel about guns...

 

[RobG]

Hey @Stikbow, is BHA still making progress in the Dillon area?

 

[RobG]

ATV tracks right through a patch of knapweed more than a mile from any legal road. Then they ride every ridge and rib in this place, often looking for antlers. Spreading this stuff is basically permanent damage. Game wardens can't get a handle on it.

 

[oxn939]

This sounds like the Kennedys and how they feel about guns...

OK so just to be clear- you'd be totally cool with it if you were hunting somewhere and then someone rolls up and destroys the experience by doing something loud and also illegal? That sounds like animals rights activists and how they feel about legal hunting...

 

[ccc23454]

I still see way more damage from domestic cattle and horses than all atvs...

 

[shrapnel]

OK so just to be clear- you'd be totally cool with it if you were hunting somewhere and then someone rolls up and destroys the experience by doing something loud and also illegal? That sounds like animals rights activists and how they feel about legal hunting...

You are spoiling for a fight, that I’m not interested in. The previous post made the comment that atvs ruin the experience for everyone. That just isn’t true and if you can’t admit that, there is no room for discourse.

Generalizations like that are what the anti-gun crowd use to attack gun ownership. Being responsible is everyone’s business, but to outlaw or eliminate guns or atvs because of abuse is short sighted. What bothers people is abuse and then the common reaction is to make the gun or atv the villain.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I still see way more damage from domestic cattle and horses than all atvs...

In Alaska damage occurs when ATVs quickly damage the organic horizon that
insulates the permafrost.

Then there is a negative feedback loop...acceleration of thawing permafrost,
leading to water which conducts heat, leading to more rapid thawing of permafrost.

Soon a drainage that was easy to cross in boots is a peat pond that requires waders
or a canoe to get across.

 

[Bob-WY]

It's not an ATV problem, it's an asshole problem. Simple as that. Stay on trails designated as such, staff off trails designated as such, and have fun. Simple as that.

 

[Wrong Burgundy]

Others have nailed it on the head, I think -- it is an asshole problem, not an ATV problem. Same could be said for driving too fast, drinking and driving, littering, etc. You just have to have an "I don't give a crap about anything" attitude and a lack of respect for most things or viewpoints.

I am not a fan of ATVs and have never used one/owned one, but on legal trails, whatever. That is the whole point of mixed use.
It is when you see so much ignorant, arrogant abuse of OUR land by a bunch of mouth-breathers, it makes me nuts. I watched a pair of D-nozzles through my spotter a few seasons back ride right up through a steep hillside of sage, just smashing the hell out of the brush to rally their way up to a saddle. Rifle season, no blaze orange too. They parked up on top (it was about 1/3 mile away) and wandered around a bit, glassed off the backside, sat on their rigs, then they rode out. The "access" they used was off private land through a gate or something that backs into national forest, but there is no trail, nothing. And yes, even through the spotter, it was easy to notice the duo had a BMI of about 50 and likely would have died walking DOWN the hill. Complete BS.

ATVs run fine on four deflated tires, right? They work OK without spark plugs, too?

 

[KB_]

OK so just to be clear- you'd be totally cool with it if you were hunting somewhere and then someone rolls up and destroys the experience by doing something loud and also illegal? That sounds like animals rights activists and how they feel about legal hunting...

I think your confused...

Aside from the loud thing. One is doing something illegal and the other is doing something legal. NO comparison

Riding your atv for hunting is fine when utilized legally. I agree with the comment above. Cows do just as much if not more damage in some the areas I go to. Just an observation.

 

[KB_]

ATVs run fine on four deflated tires, right? They work OK without spark plugs, too?

That comment right there is what makes people think its ok to just vandalize peoples equipment, even if they are utilizing it legally. Just because they decide its not the "cool" thing to do.

Call the ef'ing warden if you see something illegal. Vandalizing peoples stuff is a good way to have some problems later on.

 

[Wrong Burgundy]

That comment right there is what makes people think its ok to just vandalize peoples equipment, even if they are utilizing it legally. Just because they decide its not the "cool" thing to do.

Call the ef'ing warden if you see something illegal. Vandalizing peoples stuff is a good way to have some problems later on.

I needed to include the sarcasm font....

 

[oxn939]

One is doing something illegal and the other is doing something legal. NO comparison

Incorrect. Use of an ATV offroad in AK is illegal if it "contributes to water quality degradation, alteration of drainage systems, significant rutting, ground disturbance, or thermal erosion.” See the OP's picture if there is any ambiguity about whether what we're discussing meets this definition.

 

[KB_]

Incorrect. Use of an ATV offroad in AK is illegal if it "contributes to water quality degradation, alteration of drainage systems, significant rutting, ground disturbance, or thermal erosion.” See the OP's picture if there is any ambiguity about whether what we're discussing meets this definition.

I under stand what your sayin man. But that trail you were showing was a walking trail right? that whole situation there is illegal. Frankly its discusting and i'm with you there. But when a Trail is open and is legal to ride I have no problems. Its when the trail is closed (which is very easy to find out) and people still ride on it, thats when its a big problem.

Thats a big bummer you guys have to deal with that. I wonder if that is a manpower issue in alaska as to why more people dont get busted?