Hunters Call out for Banning Fat-Assed ATV Riders

[JoseCuervo]

Always funny to see the Blue Ribbers offering comments.... Isn't that the same guy that is facing prosecution for his activities as a Fat-Assed destroyer of hunting opportunities???

Off-roaders, conservationists debate national forest road use


While the roadless rule debate has gotten the headlines, the U.S. Forest Service is reviewing rules regarding motorized vehicle access on national forests and grasslands.

That is good news to Dale Togstad of the Tacoma Trail Cruisers. He hopes such a review will lead to the opening of national forest roads to riders of all-terrain vehicles.


"In the state of Washington, we can't ride on national forest roads," Togstad said.


"Whenever I talk to the Forest Service here, the answer is 'No, we don't want that here.' So any time I hear of the Forest Service opening more roads and more trails, I always have a glimmer of hope," the Tacoma resident said.


Jack Lyon, a retired Forest Service biologist and Montana resident, hopes the Forest Service will go in the other direction, and take this opportunity to close more roads.


"There is no wildlife species that benefits from a road. Any road that is used consistently will lead to the loss of habitat," Lyon said.


In July, the Forest Service proposed a rule that would require the establishment of a system of roads, trails and areas designate for motor vehicle use. The proposal also would prohibit the use of motor vehicles off the designated system.


The need for the proposal is twofold, according to the Forest Service.


The first is the rise in off-road vehicle use. According to a national study released earlier this year, the number of people who drive off-road vehicles rose more than 109 percent between 1982 and 2000.


The other issues is confusing policies within the agency. "The Forest Service does not have a clear, consistent, internal policy regarding motor vehicle use on National Forest system lands," agency officials wrote in describing the need for the review.


While groups on both sides of the issue welcome the chance to rewrite the rules, each side fears the Forest Service will not go far enough to protect their particular interest.


"Coming forward with these rules is a big step, but these proposed rules do fall short in addressing unmanaged recreation on public land," said Stan Rauch, hunter outreach coordinator for the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition.


"Overall, there is a definite place for (off-road vehicle) use on public land. But that plan is not every place. We are talking about a common sense approach to ORV management," Rauch said.


"This is just to eliminate the inappropriate use of off-road vehicles, but some opponents of are trying to take this a step further. There is some danger that can happen," said Bill Dart, executive director of the Blue Ribbon Coalition.


Dart said the coalition is concerned about efforts to limit what types of roads vehicles such as ATVs can use, plus they don't want to see the loss of existing travel areas.


Dart said there are users who need to better understand the rules, citing hunters as an example.


"There's rules out there for OHV (off-highway vehicle) use and rules for hunting. But hunters on ATVs don't think of themselves as ATV rides, but as hunters," Dart said.


"Within the hunting community there is a philosophical debate. There are some who don't support the use of ATVs at all. But the market is supporting the sale of ATVs."


For Cherie Barton, president of the Idaho Wildlife Federation, that is the heart of the issue. She said she typically hunts in a roadless area near Lemhi, Idaho.


"We have encountered ATVs and even a pickup truck in this roadless area and it's kind of disturbing," Barton said. "It shows an indiscriminate lack of respect for the rules, the land and the wildlife.


"It's not like I'm for banning ATVs altogether, but I'm for the common sense use of ATVs."

 

[Oak]

"There is no wildlife species that benefits from a road. Any road that is used consistently will lead to the loss of habitat," Lyon said.

Gosh, that's not what I've heard from many of the loyal posters here. Who's right???

Oak

 

[Ithaca 37]

"There's rules out there for OHV (off-highway vehicle) use and rules for hunting. But hunters on ATVs don't think of themselves as ATV rides, but as hunters," Dart said."

There's rules about illegal outfitting too, but Dart ignored them and got caught redhanded!

 

[Bambistew]

"Within the hunting community there is a philosophical debate. There are some who don't support the use of ATVs at all. But the market is supporting the sale of ATVs."

the market supports the sale of heroin too...

 

[Ten Bears]

IT posted:

There's rules about illegal outfitting too, but Dart ignored them and got caught redhanded!

Can you reference the conviction, or just the charges??????

....I'm for the common sense use of ATVs.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

Are you denying that Dart was caught illegally outfitting and was cited for the same???

And do you care to comment on Oak's memory??? It does seem like you told us that Elk liked roads, thought they were important to Elk habitat, and even became "acclimated"....

 

[cjcj]

If roads destroyed wild game, there wouldn`t be anything left in AZ.

 

[Ithaca 37]

cjcj, Sounds like you don't have much left there. Isn't most hunting there by draw? Is that because game isn't abundant enough?

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, are you trying to twist the facts? I'm not denying that Dart has been charged, but I am curious about the claims of conviction.....

I said before and I'll say it again.
Elk and other game become acclimated to the pressnece of roads. Are you and IT (OAK if he wants to be included) claiming that they never use or cross any roads??????

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Hunters should call out to ban FAT-ASSED Lefists from posting crap on the board!

 

[Delw]

Ithaca

cjcj, Sounds like you don't have much left there. Isn't most hunting there by draw? Is that because game isn't abundant enough?

No thats really not why.
the main reason is everyone would hunt in the forrest which we have very little of, the draw disperses people evenly through out the state.

As far as deer hunting we have alot of deer there are more deer in the desert regions than there are in the forrest regions., The majority of the people refuse to hunt where its hot all day.

North rim of the grand canyon for example is one place,(kaibab) you will see litteraly hundreds of people hunting the forrest, and only a hand full if that hunting in the sage. there are more deer in the sage and juniper areas than there are in the tall pines( and bigger deer also.) but yet people are drawn to the tall pines, mainly cause its pretty and its at a higher elevation, they dont care if deer are there or not.


Oh BTW you will see more ruffled grouse on road ways than you will in the forrest, they eat the gravel. So thats one animal that benifits from the roads

Delw

Delw

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Funny how many Elk, Deer ect travel "Closed/open logging roads". I've been up scouting twice and and on the two differnt trips I use Logging roads to get to my area. But when I take off for miles and see less sign than on the roads it makes me wonder. I hunt the border of the Frank Church an there is no doubt the Elk and Deer use the roads at night a lot! When I go up during the November rifle season and the snow piles up they use use it a lot! They are changing their ways and staying in the thicker covered areas but still use logging roads at night to move.

 

[Oak]

Oh BTW you will see more ruffled grouse on road ways than you will in the forrest

I'll bet the grouse do get pretty ruffled on the road.

Oak

 

[Delw]

YOu just brough something up that I forgot about .


roads do draw animals especially here in AZ, they draw hundreds of elk and deer. reason being there is grass next to almost every road, this is few and far between in the forrest of AZ. besides during our monsoons the water holds up along the roads and the grass grows, they are not just crossing the roads either they basically live by them most of the year


Delw

 

[Oak]

Hey WapSla, it was a joke. You should try laying off the booze if you're going to post on here.

Oak

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Originally posted by Oak:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Oh BTW you will see more ruffled grouse on road ways than you will in the forrest

I'll bet the grouse do get pretty ruffled on the road.

Oak </font>[/QUOTE]Probably by Fatt-ass people like you smoking them off logging roads instead of really hunting them.

 

[cjcj]

Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
cjcj, Sounds like you don't have much left there. Isn't most hunting there by draw? Is that because game isn't abundant enough?

Ithaca Delw layed out alot of reasons why we have a draw, and i will add some more. WE have too many people, we also have very little water compared to most states [water is life] in the desert. If we didn`t have a draw how would/could we manage our wildlife? We also have developed/destroyed millions of acres of habitat[they call it growth] I call it depletion/destruction. I used to hunt in AZ when their wasn`t a draw, and it was great. Anyone remember the old tags with the steel tag straps? you could hardly close up your wallet. Any way i am not a fan of all of these roads, but i see lots of game grazing by them. Any more questions? i will be glad to answer.