Howa Alpine Mountain Rifle test drive

[jryoung]

I do have a question for you gun nuts.

I've always looked at the 6.5 Creedmoor as a great possibility built on the .308 Win case. Howa has started discussions about how well that chambering would be received by hunters. I love all that the .264 bullet has as options and performance. Yet, I wonder if hunters would opt for a 7mm-.08 over the 6.5 Creedmoor, and if so, reasons for such choice.

No right or wrong answers, just looking for feedback and input about the 6.5 as a hunting round from those who have used it for such.

I would not opt for a Creedmore over a 7mm-08, for a general purpose rifle. The 7mm has a better bullet selection for larger game, and will push a 140 grain faster than Creedmore will with an immaterial difference in BC. If I'm looking at lopes and whitetails only, I might get a Creedmore, if I want to hunt elk and bear too, I like the 7mm-08.

I know the Creedmore has some excitement around it but if I wanted a 6.5 it is hard to get me away from the 260 Remington as it has been around twice as long and has far more offering of brass/factory ammunition. Same applies for the 7mm-08 too (and I'm a guy that shoots a wildcat).

I wish Howa would make it a 22" barrel, but it still is a rifle that has me interested.

 

[1_pointer]

I think a 6.5 Creedmore would sell, but probably not at the same rate as the ture .308 based rounds. FWIW, the Creedmore really isn't on the 308 case, but basically a 6.5 on a slightly improved 22-250 case.

I too would probably rather see it offered in 260 Rem, but that would be a bit dependent upon magazine length as I'm sorta fond of the high BC, javelin like bullets in 6.5mm. If the magazine is over 2.8" a 260 would be a better choice IMO.

Not sure if folks would pick the 6.5mm versions over the 7mm version, but IMO the 6.5s are probably a bit more popular in new guns. I know for me, there's nothing I wouldn't hunt with a 260/6.5 Creedmore that I would hunt with a 7-08. They are all but ballistic twins when used with the bullet weights folks generally use in these rounds. Don't forget about breaksrunner/psinclair taking a 260 Rem with 130gr bullets to AK and coming home with a very nice grizzley...

PS- Any info on the release date for the left handed rifles? It looks like we'll be able to use 'real' rifles in Indiana next year and my son is left handed...

 

[Carl]

A 6.5 Creedmoor would have more appeal to me personally than the other offerings. A 1-8 twist would be mandatory, but almost everyone gets twist in the 6.5's right, Howa included. I do think it is a round we'll see grow in popularity, but I don't know to what degree.

I've done all my big game hunting the last three years with a custom 6.5x47L, practically a ballistic twin to the Creedmoor. All chamberings are compromises and I like that compromise quite well.

 

[Carl]

The 243 would also be appealing, but not in the 1-10 twist Howa normally offers.

 

[Big Fin]

All great comments that are useful for Howa. They will be looking at this thread. They have "smart guys" who do the designs and engineering. Then they had them to non-smart guys like me and say, "Go beat the hell out of them and tell us what we can improve."

 

[MThuntr]

I think keeping things based on 308 is a good idea. The 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't do anything that the 260Rem can't. Like mentioned before if the box mag is long enough the 260 will really excel.

If what was stated earlier is true about the 243..I don't see any reason for 243 in a mountain rifle but that is my personal bias. I know people routinely take elk with a 243 but I still think it is best suited for antelope, whitetails, and coyotes.

As I look online for more info about the new Howa I come to question it's cost. I wonder if Howa isn't over pricing themselves. There will be a lot of guys (including myself) asking "What is it about this rifle demands a retail price of $1K?"

 

[jryoung]

Don't forget about breaksrunner/psinclair taking a 260 Rem with 130gr bullets to AK and coming home with a very nice grizzley...

We're all mere mortals when it comes to shooting though.

That said, he's running the 6.5 SAUM 4S now....maybe Howa should jump on that cartridge.

 

[belly-deep]

One more thought on the Creedmore vs. .260: given the current (un)availability of reloading supplies, its a lot easier to neck up a .243 or down a 7/08 to get brass for the .260.

Making your own Creedmore brass is a PTA that includes fireforming.

If I was looking at two ballistically similar rounds right now, I know ease of obtaining components would definitely factor into my decision.

Of course, that could change within months if the companies get caught up. But shortage could be the new normal for all I know too.

 

[belly-deep]

The 243 would also be appealing, but not in the 1-10 twist Howa normally offers.

Yeah, I really wish they would twist their .243's slower too.

Howa make a good out-of-the-box LR rig for guys who don't want to drop a bunch of cash. But if they can't shoot LR bullets...

 

[Speedy204]

Hi all, new to the forum, and enjoy reading about hunting in the west.life time W.A. Resident. I own a couple Howas. Absolutely love them, my question is where did the wieght go on the new alpine? Is it still the same 1500 action? My .204 with a leuy. 4.5 14 x 50 is over 11 lbs. the only issue I've ever heard about Howas is the wieght. Thanks.

 

[noharleyyet]

"What is it about this rifle demands a retail price of $1K?"

Don't know what out the door pricing is but IMO, it's not that far off considering the below. Rifle prices have been rising also.

5.7 lbs for Rifle Only (wouldn't mind a few more oz. for longer barrel.22-24")
6.7 lbs for Scoped Combo (would opt for better optics)
HOWA 1500 - lwt 20 “ barreled action for reliable accuracy and strength (deal breaker for me)
CERAKOTE - Tough Barrel and Action for the ultimate weather and finish protection (value added)
VORTEX Viper – 3-9x40 scope with BDC reticle (addressed)
Talley –1oz rings and base out of 7000 series alloy (value plus if comes with rifle only)
Pillar bedded –for maximum stability between the action and stock (value plus)
H.A.C.T. - Two Stage Match Trigger set at 3 lbs (value plus)
High Tech Ultimate LWT Stock –OD Textured finish. Superb Strength &
Durability, unbelievably strong without excessive weight.(absolutely value plus)
Pachmayr – Decelorator butt pad (good component)
ATI Ammo Boost – 5 rd detachable mag / traditional floor plate included in the box (value plus)
Initial Calibers Available - 308 / 7mm-08 (good weight saving short action calibers)

Would prefer a longer barrel with short magnum offerings...say 300 and 270 WSM.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Nice looking, but if that last group doesn't cut its self in half soon, I'd be sending it down the road. Some folks might consider that acceptable accuracy, but I'm not one of them. Sure is nice looking though, and I'm a big fan of the 7mm08. I've had one or more since they first came out in a factory rifle back in the 80's.

Not everyone is obsessed with having a MOA rifle. If it shoots accurately at the ranges you feel comfortable with when shooting at game, then it is "accurate enough."

 

[belly-deep]

My guess is the stock accounts for a good portion of the rifle's price.

Good stocks aren't cheap...

 

[Carl]

One more thought on the Creedmore vs. .260: given the current (un)availability of reloading supplies, its a lot easier to neck up a .243 or down a 7/08 to get brass for the .260.

Making your own Creedmore brass is a PTA that includes fireforming.

If I was looking at two ballistically similar rounds right now, I know ease of obtaining components would definitely factor into my decision.

Of course, that could change within months if the companies get caught up. But shortage could be the new normal for all I know too.

I think we're seeing the component shortage ease, but it will probably not be like it once was for a while. I expect even if everything levels out we'll see buying habits of shooters change for a decade.

GA Precision has had 6mm Creedmoor brass in stock for most of the last two years, I have to think you could neck it up pretty easily. No where near as many options as 7-08/308, but an extra option at least.


Also, with the components used on this rifle (outlined above) it is NOT overpriced.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

I'd say stay with the 7mm-08 for production. If my boys were a little older, I'd buy one for them in a heartbeat. Nice looking lightweight rifle with good bullet selection and lots of reasonably priced components available.
I'm not a long ranger so the ballistic talk and hype isn't really that big of a deal. I like to shoot at reasonable sub-400 yard distances for animals although I practice a lot further. I think the 7mm would outshoot my abilities and needs which are pretty average for someone who considers himself a typical hunter. Being able to get ammo in a pinch at the local wal-mart or mom and pop shop in BFE is always a plus too IMO.

 

[Ben Lamb]

What NoHarleyYet said.

On the 260 v. 6.5 creedmoor, it's about sales, and I doubt a specialized cartridge like the creedmoor would pump out the volume that a 260 would. Plus, the 22-250 was based off of the 250 Savage, which was based off of the 300 savage. Different case dimensions from the 308.

Not that I'd buy either. Now, if they offered it in a .358 Winchester that would get me there.

 

[MThuntr]

Don't know what out the door pricing is but IMO, it's not that far off considering the below. Rifle prices have been rising also.



Would prefer a longer barrel with short magnum offerings...say 300 and 270 WSM.

Yeah I suppose you're right it's not too far off. I think I saw a price on one of the online firearm retailers so that will definitely change once these rifles actually start hitting the shelves.

I couldnt' find any of the WSM listed as available cartridges on the Howa site so those might be a long shot but I'd wager a lot of people would be interested if it were. Although with that light of a rifle it wouldn't be one that I'd want to shoot.

 

[MT_elk]

Very nice package!

 

[Big Fin]

All of this is helpful commentary. Appreciate you guys giving your perspectives.

PS- Any info on the release date for the left handed rifles? It looks like we'll be able to use 'real' rifles in Indiana next year and my son is left handed...

I just sent an email with your question. The lefties will be available for the 2016 model year, so about this time next year. Hope that helps.

 

[devon deer]

That is a nice rifle. The group is great for a clean barrel. Foul it and it should cut it in half.

I agree on both points you have made.

As for cost, with scope that works out approx £1k in the UK, i think that is a fair price.

I do like the Cerakote finish

Cheers

Richard