belly-deep
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Ok....
How do cattle herds effect elk population?
- Thread starter commandoNate
- Start date
Ok....
James Riley
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Personal observation. I know I'd be a lot thinner, smarter and energetic if I was eating nothing but wild game. But sitting here, behind a computer, yacking with you guys, I'm getting fatter, dumber (I know some of you don't think that's possible but you're making my point) and lazier every day. And most folks I know show similar inclinations.
You could move on from HT. Just so you won't get dummer. mtmuley
James Riley
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I would but I don't want you to get dumber too. I'm a big hearted guy that way.
Wulffhunter
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Well apparently the state of SD values cattle in the Black Hills more than the elk so they issue more elk tags because they eat the cattles grass... I think the gfp in the state needs a swift kick in the @ss and realize that elk make them way more money than a few grazing permits...
davinski
Well-known member
I think they tolerate each other fine when there is plenty of feed. On drought years, I think the elk are less tolerant and move out to areas cattle won't frequent. On average or wet years, I see them in the same places just not at the exact same times. Same day though.
We did have an interesting thought this year. One ridge in particular used to be a real honey hole until about 4 years ago. Then the last few seasons, not so good for elk. Could be any number of things causing it, but it dawned on us this year that's about when we quit seeing cattle up there also. I don't know if the lessee just isn't using it, the BLM cut him off, or quit the area altogether. Again, correlation is not causation, but still something to ponder.
I know enough about ranching and range ecology to know that I'm actually pretty ignorant on the two. I don't know if some noxious weed moved in that neither species like, both elk and rancher found better feed areas for their needed capacity, or it's not related at all. Just kind of weird.
We did have an interesting thought this year. One ridge in particular used to be a real honey hole until about 4 years ago. Then the last few seasons, not so good for elk. Could be any number of things causing it, but it dawned on us this year that's about when we quit seeing cattle up there also. I don't know if the lessee just isn't using it, the BLM cut him off, or quit the area altogether. Again, correlation is not causation, but still something to ponder.
I know enough about ranching and range ecology to know that I'm actually pretty ignorant on the two. I don't know if some noxious weed moved in that neither species like, both elk and rancher found better feed areas for their needed capacity, or it's not related at all. Just kind of weird.
Blinn
New member
I have only hunted elk a few times, but I have been around cattle all my life. From my experience, elk will keep their distance from cattle herds during pre-rut. When it is hot in late August and early September, cattle too are looking for shade, food, and water. Most Ranchers in the mid-west have their bulls out with their cows in June, July, and August. Most ranchers keep a pretty close eye on their bulls during this time, so there tends to be more human traffic (Ranchers checking their cows, and especially their bulls). When I was scouting before a Black Hills Archery Elk hunt a year ago, I noticed right away that the elk tried to stay in areas away from cattle. They were not necessarily miles away, but far enough away that as soon as I saw cattle I knew it was time to start looking in other areas. I also saw plenty of ranchers out and about checking their cows, bulls, water tanks, salt block, barrels, etc. Obviously elk seemed to want to stay away from all that traffic.
However, once Mid-September rolled around, it really didn't matter. Bulls (the ones with antlers
) were moving. Elk really didn't mind that cattle were around. It may have had more to do with the fact that by mid to late September, cattle and elk were forced to start sharing water and feed sources. May also be from hunting pressure. I have never hunted elk in the late season, but I do know that most ranchers typically have "winter" pastures that have not been grazed since the last winter. Typically these pasture are lower in elevation, closer to their hay stacks, and obviously have plenty of grass for winter grazing. If I was an elk, that is where I would want to be once the snow starts to blow!
In regards to the original question about seeing (1) Angus bull at 10,000 ft. during elk season, I highly doubt that he would affect any elk in the area. Bulls (the ones that moo) are JUST like bulls (the ones with antlers) in that once the breeding season is over, they go find the most remote hiding place they can find to rest and recover. Every year when we go to pull bulls off the cows, it is a pain. Many times to the extent that we don't find them. We just let them be until they decide to rejoin society! I can't count the number of times I stumbled across a black Angus bull in late October or November hunting mule deer. Unfortunately, they are usually pretty rested by that point!!!
Anyways, Wulffhunter, I would not go as far as to criticize the SDGF&P over their management of elk in the Black Hills. Yes, I too would like to see elk populations continue to increase in the Black Hills. I think the SDGF&P has to work pretty hard to find a balance in terms of keeping ranchers in the Black Hills happy, as well as keep elk herds at healthy numbers. Yes, I too thought they went a little overboard with the number of cow tags they issued this year, but then again, I assume they have a better understanding of elk populations in the hills than I do. I DO know that typically very few tags are issues each year (all low $ resident tags as well), so I would highly doubt that the State of South Dakota is making more money off elk tags than grazing permits. However, I could very well be wrong. I just find it highly unlikely.
However, once Mid-September rolled around, it really didn't matter. Bulls (the ones with antlers
) were moving. Elk really didn't mind that cattle were around. It may have had more to do with the fact that by mid to late September, cattle and elk were forced to start sharing water and feed sources. May also be from hunting pressure. I have never hunted elk in the late season, but I do know that most ranchers typically have "winter" pastures that have not been grazed since the last winter. Typically these pasture are lower in elevation, closer to their hay stacks, and obviously have plenty of grass for winter grazing. If I was an elk, that is where I would want to be once the snow starts to blow!In regards to the original question about seeing (1) Angus bull at 10,000 ft. during elk season, I highly doubt that he would affect any elk in the area. Bulls (the ones that moo) are JUST like bulls (the ones with antlers) in that once the breeding season is over, they go find the most remote hiding place they can find to rest and recover. Every year when we go to pull bulls off the cows, it is a pain. Many times to the extent that we don't find them. We just let them be until they decide to rejoin society! I can't count the number of times I stumbled across a black Angus bull in late October or November hunting mule deer. Unfortunately, they are usually pretty rested by that point!!!
Anyways, Wulffhunter, I would not go as far as to criticize the SDGF&P over their management of elk in the Black Hills. Yes, I too would like to see elk populations continue to increase in the Black Hills. I think the SDGF&P has to work pretty hard to find a balance in terms of keeping ranchers in the Black Hills happy, as well as keep elk herds at healthy numbers. Yes, I too thought they went a little overboard with the number of cow tags they issued this year, but then again, I assume they have a better understanding of elk populations in the hills than I do. I DO know that typically very few tags are issues each year (all low $ resident tags as well), so I would highly doubt that the State of South Dakota is making more money off elk tags than grazing permits. However, I could very well be wrong. I just find it highly unlikely.
belshawelk
Well-known member
I have trail cam pics ( several) with elk and cattle in same picture. I see them all time together in the same fields and hillsides. If you have an area with cattle, their scent will help you. Elk are NOT afraid of cattle. Ferrel horses are a completely different situation. They destroy everything, dig holes leave huge piles of crap and will absolutely charge you. It happened to me when I heard some footprints and branches breaking in a thick timber area. Got within 75 yards thinking it was elk- NOPE! It was all I could do not to shoot one. I literally jumped behind a big tree and started throwing rocks at it. I have them running through my property all the time. Must have 200 plus pics on trail cams in the last three years. Oregon Libs are in love with them so trying to get them removed, takes an act of congress.
James Riley
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I resemble that remark.
Nunyacreek
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The best elk hunting I have ever had was in areas hammered by cows, I don't know why, and it was early September. Consistently. My gut reaction is that cows probably affect riparian areas, and the browse in them, more than the grazing per se, but there's no way I would rule out an area because of cattle. For one thing in out of the west there would be nowhere left to hunt. The biggest thing I notice when I find an area without cattle is that there are fewer cow paths and trails and it's a lot harder to bowhunt. I think elk can survive nearly anywhere, and sometimes they are in with the cow and sometimes not, but I think people are a much bigger factor than cows.
