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Ithaca 37

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Sierra Club members to document off-road vehicle damage - Brief Article
Sierra, Sept, 2001 by J.L.H.

With help from a former military man, Sierra Club members are taking to the woods to fight off-road outlaws

As a U.S. Marine, Tom Arnold learned how to gather information behind enemy lines. Now a civilian in Montana, he's teaching nature-lovers how to scout areas torn up by renegade off-road-vehicle users in Gallatin National Forest, which borders Yellowstone National Park.

"When I got out of the Marines two years ago, I had a dream of starting an `ecological reconnaissance' team, using the same skills for the earth," says 25-year-old Arnold, who started working with the Sierra Club after a snowmobile-monitoring stint with the Native Forest Network. To record snowmobile damage, Arnold trekked on snowshoes or skis, photographing smashed vegetation, dumped fuel, and erosion in areas off-limits to motorized vehicles.

Such destruction is increasingly common nationwide from irresponsible use of ORVs: off-road motorcycles, all-terrain-vehicles, four-wheelers, swamp buggies, snowmobiles, and Jet Skis. When driven off designated roads and trails, some ORVs can pick up weed seeds and spread them into vulnerable native-plant communities. They can also stir up stream sediment, and their two-cycle engines emit high levels of air and water pollution--and lots of noise.

Federal agencies are often too understaffed to enforce ORV rules, or even adequately assess the wear and tear the vehicles inflict. That's where Arnold comes in.

"I started doing this kind of work when I was about eleven years old," Arnold says. "Where I grew up, motorcycles had ruined key elk habitat, and my grandpa would go out and videotape the damage. I guess you could say he planted the seed of discontent in me."

In June, Arnold began teaching Sierra Club members how to document ORV damage. Volunteers with the Club and the Native Forest Network are surveying in Gallatin National Forest, a critical wolf and grizzly bear habitat. They will also be recruiting trail runners, climbers, hunters, and fly fishermen to help out. Ultimately, Arnold hopes to help build a training model that can be used nationwide. (For information on starting a monitoring program in your area, contact Geoff Suttle in the Club's Montana field office at [email protected].)

The Montana program debuted as part of the Club's "Lewis and Clark Days," an eight-state celebration in the West. This series of summer hikes, lectures, bike tours, and other events sparked renewed efforts to preserve what remains of the landscape the explorers saw 200 years ago.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1525/is_5_86/ai_77279567
 
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Yep...can't you tell, were tearing the shit out of the ground 8 ft down. :wank:
 
I have only been here a week but I figured out that Ithaca is either Buzz's alter ego that he uses another computer and IP for or they are a gay couple living next to Jerry Spence in Jackson Bunghole Wyoming and dine with Ted Turner occasionally. Too much coincidence to have two forest elves that always support each other blindly and bring up the same topics. Funny boys.
 
ringer said:
I have only been here a week but I figured out that Ithaca is either Buzz's alter ego that he uses another computer and IP for or they are a gay couple living next to Jerry Spence in Jackson Bunghole Wyoming and dine with Ted Turner occasionally. Too much coincidence to have two forest elves that always support each other blindly and bring up the same topics. Funny boys.


LMAO...that there is funny. :D
 
HAHAHA Ringer,
No, these are two different individuals in two different areas.
.
Except for taking pictures, what is this ex-marine actually doing?
I didn't see any thing in the article to say much more.
Does he gather data for law enforcement?
Does he actually do physical damage to those wrong doer's?
If it is the first one, we can all do that.
I carry a digital camera and GPS myself and will use it for tip mont, but haven't had to yet.
 
AK and ringer, Could you guys please explain what's wrong with helping law enforcement officials monitor and stop off -road outlaws? Isn't that what you're always saying should be done---punish the offenders, not the innocent users? Would you report illegal users of off road motorized vehicles? What, precisely, is wrong with documenting and reporting illegal use of OHVs?

I notice that elkchser is prepared to do the same thing as the Sierra Club members.
 
This is precisely the reason why ATVers are seeing larger and larger portions of the public lands locked up. They have this "I can do what I want" mentality, they dont work on solutions, they dont police themselves, they dont support others that do, etc. etc. etc.

Well, I got some news for ATVers, 98% of the public will work on the solutions for you, and you're making it happen, on the fast track, with your thumb glued to the throttle.

Good work.
 
It's not so much that I agree with the Sierra Club on much of any thing, but this is more of an issue of an absolute right or wrong, and this is a wrong.
Every one knows most of the areas I frequent, or at least they suspect it, ATV's arn't allowed. I am not against ATV'rs in general, I just make sure that if I don't want to bump into them, I go where they are not supposed to be. So it is on those certain individuals when bad things happen.
If it's leagle, than they should be able to go where ever the law dictates. That includes people that do any thing else that stay with in the confines of the law, including logging, mining, and petroleum extraction.... ;) :)
 
Hey Buzz Lightyear....who are you to say I'm not reporting violaters. Did I ever say I supported people breaking the law? I will report motorized as well as nonmotorized violations in the forest. I usually see more lazy azz tree huggin click clicks leaving their granola wrappers and roaches laying around than sledders leaving trash in the winter.
 
You mean like this!...LOL...

Peace_1.jpg


Or this?

Peace_2.jpg


Nothing like being one with the Earth and advertising to the world... ;)
 
There is a huge difference between violators who are destroying habitat in a legally closed area and trying to close the entire landscape so only your particular interest is served. This is just like the other threads where Buzz and gang try to transfer their limited exposure to the entire west. I think these issues could be resolved by EG, Buzz and Ithaca visiting other states like Arizona and Alaska so they can understand that there is no comparison. The entire west is not Jellystone park. I will help pay for the plane tickets and pick you guys up at the airport for the Arizona tour.
 
AK and ringer, I'm sorry. I took your wise ass posts to mean you weren't in support of Tom Arnold and others like him trying to help do something about illegal OHV users. That's sure what it looked like to me, but I'm glad to hear you'll do the same as the Sierra Club members. Now, why don't you join the club and start paying membership dues in support of their efforts? Wouldn't that be better than expecting the gummint to spend more of the taxpayers money on enforcement? Are you guys in favor of ordinary citizens helping to identify illegal users or not?

Notice what Tom Arnold's mission is: "As a U.S. Marine, Tom Arnold learned how to gather information behind enemy lines. Now a civilian in Montana, he's teaching nature-lovers how to scout areas torn up by renegade off-road-vehicle users in Gallatin National Forest, which borders Yellowstone National Park."

BTW, AK and ringer, In between hobnobbing with Jerry Spence and Ted Turner Buzz managed to fit in a few days of hunting this year. Take a look:

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18725&page=1&pp=25

I might try to figure out how to post some pictures myself if I get time, but I've posted some in the past and wouldn't want you guys to have to waste time looking at them. I know how busy you are working to educate renegade OHV users about responsible use. :D
 
Ringer,

I hate to bust your chops again...but I guess I will.

Unless you spend in excess of 45-60 days a year on public lands in AZ, I think I have you covered. I work down there every year from about mid-Feb through the end of April, all field work. Usually start in the south around Tucson and work up toward Flag. The only part of AZ I havent spent much time in, is the extreme Western portion. I also hunt javelina there every year, and will be down there again this year in Mid-Jan. if the VW bus will get me there.

As to what I see in AZ...too many roads, AZ is an absolute piece of cake to work in, theres roads everywhere. The desert near any big town is absolutely a mess, more trash than cactus, atv trails all over the place. The FS lands are better trash wise, but you cant hardly find a tank anywhere that doesnt have ATV tracks around and through it.

There is some tough country too, like the 4 peaks wilderness. Horse thief basin is another one of my favorite spots...kind of like the Chiricahuas (sp?) too. The desert near Congress and to the SW of there are neat too, those scattered mountain ranges.

Also, the bass fishing in AZ is great, bartlett, roosevelt, pleasant (for white bass), verde river, all are excellent fishing. Speaking of fishing...theres some hippie tree hugger from Wyoming that holds a state record in AZ...check your regs... ;)

I like AZ, just wouldnt want to live there.
 
Now, why don't you join the club and start paying membership dues in support of their efforts? Wouldn't that be better than expecting the gummint to spend more of the taxpayers money on enforcement? Are you guys in favor of ordinary citizens helping to identify illegal users or not?

WTF???? You have got to be shitting me. Give money to the fuggers trying to get rid of Snowmobiles and ATV's? You must have gone and grabbed all those roaches and smoked all of them. You seriously need to come up for air. |oo
 
AK and ringer, I'm sorry. I took your wise ass posts to mean you weren't in support of Tom Arnold and others like him trying to help do something about illegal OHV users. That's sure what it looked like to me, but I'm glad to hear you'll do the same as the Sierra Club members. Now, why don't you join the club and start paying membership dues in support of their efforts? Wouldn't that be better than expecting the gummint to spend more of the taxpayers money on enforcement? Are you guys in favor of ordinary citizens helping to identify illegal users or not?
Ithaca, that is some pretty funny stuff. I guess the Sierra Club is the only outfit reporting recreation violations. I assume by your statement above (sarcasm alert Buzz) they lead the nation in reporting poaching violations too, since they spend so much time in the forest. Or maybe it is the hunters reporting most of the poaching violations, and maybe it is snowmobilers that report most of the violations regarding their sport.

I am concerned that you assume that those of us that recreate responsibly would not report others who do not. It shows me that you have some predispositions, and look at certain things from a biased and somewhat uneducated perspective. On the other hand, I would safely assume that you would report any poaching or other illegal activity in a heartbeat. Just because people are smartasses doesn't mean they aren't ethical and don't care.
 
Buzz-If you ain't Ithaca why does he keep posting yer photos? I grew up in Tucson and got my first cous in the chiricahuas. I also have a Skeeter zx202 with a 200 Yammy and fish tourneys so if you have time to get out during your pig hunt I am making the offer. I have a HAM hunt in unit 22 2/11-2/17. Ithaca, if you ain't Buzz then stop licking his butt and learn to stand on yer own two feet. That stuff is gettin' way too gay.
 
Ringer,

I aint Ithaca, and I think you'd be suprised to see some of the critters he's bagged...

I'd sure like to have the 2 stone sheep he killed...freaking hogs.

Thanks for the fishing offer...not sure if I'll have time this go around, but later in the year when I'm working down there...I'll take you up on the offer.
 
Hangar, Some of my "predispositions" were formed while I was the SW Idaho Citizens Against Poaching director for ten years. I'm surprised you would think that gave me an "uneducated perspective". Ten years of working with citizens who were reporting all kinds of violations (not just poaching) gave me an education that would be hard to match.

As a CAP director I put a lot of my time and $ where my mouth was. Anytime you want a position with CAP just let me know. :)

BTW, Hangar, I was just realizing, while thinking about snowmobiles, that I first started riding one 47 years ago. I was riding and racing them before you were born. :D
 
Ithaca, you missed my point.

Why did YOU make the assumption that snowmobilers would not report illegal activity, when it basically goes without saying that I and probably every other hunter on this board would assume that you WOULD report illegal activity?

I guessed that you had a predisposition against motorized recreation in general, and are somewhat uneducated about it. Am I correct?

Is this clear? There are three questions in there.
 
I guess my question may be too simple, but, Why can't atv's stay on the road? Why can't snowmobiles stay on trails made for them? I'm really not trying to be a smartass but I really don't see the need for going places that they weren't meant to be. I don't drive my car on your lawn but I will drive it on your driveway. There is a spot for it to be and a spot where it shouldn't be.
 
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