ignorethefringes
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Fine, fine, I'll just pay for shipping . . .
Help Me Decide Optics
- Thread starter Upland
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Fine, fine, I'll just pay for shipping . . .
rjthehunter
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I'll let you pay me, and pay for shipping? Or I'll pay 40$, whichever works
ImBillT
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Vortex is not even the best Asian scope. Lols.
I know exactly what’s going on with the “broken” Leupold. I’d love to buy it at a steep discount.
I know exactly what’s going on with the “broken” Leupold. I’d love to buy it at a steep discount.
ignorethefringes
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Hey now, I was here first!
ImBillT
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I was hoping I was the only person not joking.
rjthehunter
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So what is everyones beef with Vortex on here? I don't understand. They make good quality products at a good price. I have leupold before Vortex, but when I was comparing scopes, I found that the price difference was $800 (Vortex) to $1400 (Leupold) For a scope with the same specs. The Leupold might've been a hair clearer, but why would I pay an extra $600 for an almost unnoticeable difference? Mounted on a .338 Win Mag, it tracks true, has more than enough magnification and maintains it's clarity at the high magnification. It's the Vortex Rage 5-20x50mm. Never an issue with it.
ImBillT
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^^^ I don’t have a beef with Vortex. I have a beef with claiming that it’s just as good as anything else out there. I’m comfortable saying that almost every Nightforce, March, Schmidt&Bender, and Swarovski is better than the best Vortex. I’m also comfortable saying the best Docter, Meopta, Kahles, Zeiss, and Leupold is better than the best Vortex. Top end Weaver, Sightron, and Bushnell are at least as good, if not better.
A friend looked through my Sightron SIII, sold his used Vortex, bought a brand new SIII, had money left over, and was happier with the scope.
Vortex has a lot of scopes that are of similar quality to similarly priced scopes.
A friend looked through my Sightron SIII, sold his used Vortex, bought a brand new SIII, had money left over, and was happier with the scope.
Vortex has a lot of scopes that are of similar quality to similarly priced scopes.
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MT_Chad
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Fully agree with this. Vortex isnt all that competitive once you get into the 500+ range IMO. I recently got a meopta meopro for my 300 mag, far superior to the vortex it replaced, although they are in different classes. The meopta carries a similar warranty and is European glass, not Chinese. Vortex lost my support when they moved most of their production from japan to China. The two brands that are my go to currently are Maven and Meopta. Haven't had a chance to put my hands on maven yet, still just drooling over a set of B2 binos.
rjthehunter
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While I can't speak for performance on the Vortex high end scopes, I have laid hands on about any known scope around. There comes a point in a scope where you're no longer gaining much if anything for your money. I made an effort to find a scope that was right at the point of diminishing returns and I still am confident in my decision. For those who are unaware, the point of diminishing returns is where you're still paying more, but the product isn't improving as much. The difference between a $200 scope and a $600 scope is significant. The difference between a $2,000 and $2,400 scope is usually explained to you by a salesmen. Yes I would love to have a night force, but as a student, that wasn't a smart decision.
There's multiple videos out there about long range on a budget. A ruger American and Vortex scope, good to 1000 yards by an inexperienced shooter. You don't need the custom rifle and $2500 nightforce scope. Is it nice? Sure, but does it make you a better shot? Does it extend your range you can shoot? Does it make that much of a difference? What's your reasoning for spending so much on something you use so little when actually hunting?
I'd take the money from a high end expensive name like ziess and put a Vortex on and spend the money I saved by not going with a high dollar name and put it towards binos or a spotter. As long as the scope can perform what more do you want? You spend anywhere from 10 seconds to maybe a couple minutes looking through it. You'll spend hours and hours looking through your binos or spotting scope.
For long range shooting, I understand it. If you spend hours on the range, I get it then. You spend a lot of time looking through your scope. But for the average hunter, there's no reason to spend over 1k on a scope tops.
ImBillT
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As far as I know, Nightforce, Maven, SWFA, Sightron, Weaver, Bushnell, and Vortex all use the same handful of Asian companies to manufacture “their” scopes. In Japan it’s mostly, if not all, Hakko. The “optics companies” are just “designing” the scopes and having someone else(a real optics company) manufacture them. Some companies may actually design a scope, but for the most part, especially for the cheaper scopes, it’s more like looking at a menu of options, each with a price, and choosing which items you want included in your scope. Although Maven isn’t cheap, I’m pretty sure they just pick their options off the menu, I’m not aware of them actually designing and engineering anything. I could be wrong. I’m definitely not beating them up.
What’s the point? With Asian scopes, you mostly get what you pay for. If you think Vortex is buying a scope from the same company that Sightron, Weaver and Bushnell buy from, while offering you a vastly superior warranty, and is still giving you a better scope per dollar spent, then I’d like to know where their profit comes from. March, Nightforce, Bushnell and Sightron focus a lot their high end market on the target/tactical market. Weaver and Vortex have high end offerings that are good for hunting. Vortex offers a better warranty, but I’d be very surprised if a Weaver Grand Slam if similar(or greater) quality wasn’t cheaper. Of course, if you drive over your Weaver, you lost your scope. If it’s Asian and it’s not Japanese, it’s not as good as it could be. Philippines is generally second best, followed by Taiwan, Korea, and China.
Leupold and the Europeans have lens coatings that are better suited to hunting than Asian scopes. The Europeans really have the hunting scope market figured out, and that’s because one Europe, there are no hunters who care about price. Only the rich hunt, and they want the best at any cost. It’s amazing to me that Leupold has been able to make such good scopes at semi-reasonable prices while being MADE IN USA.
What’s the point? With Asian scopes, you mostly get what you pay for. If you think Vortex is buying a scope from the same company that Sightron, Weaver and Bushnell buy from, while offering you a vastly superior warranty, and is still giving you a better scope per dollar spent, then I’d like to know where their profit comes from. March, Nightforce, Bushnell and Sightron focus a lot their high end market on the target/tactical market. Weaver and Vortex have high end offerings that are good for hunting. Vortex offers a better warranty, but I’d be very surprised if a Weaver Grand Slam if similar(or greater) quality wasn’t cheaper. Of course, if you drive over your Weaver, you lost your scope. If it’s Asian and it’s not Japanese, it’s not as good as it could be. Philippines is generally second best, followed by Taiwan, Korea, and China.
Leupold and the Europeans have lens coatings that are better suited to hunting than Asian scopes. The Europeans really have the hunting scope market figured out, and that’s because one Europe, there are no hunters who care about price. Only the rich hunt, and they want the best at any cost. It’s amazing to me that Leupold has been able to make such good scopes at semi-reasonable prices while being MADE IN USA.
It's the guys that believe this that are a huge problem. mtmuley
MT_Chad
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I dont disagree with this statement, I am very much a value shopper. I own optics from bushnell, sightron, vortex, meopta, and Swarovski so I show little brand loyalty. I shop on a budget and shop hard to find the best value. I got my meopta a year ago for almost half off, a shade under 500, amazing scope with little competition at that price. Most of my bushnell stuff is the elite series that i got for a song and the elite 3200 scope I have is amazing for the whopping 150 bucks I gave for it, easily competing with my vortex I paid twice as much for. I'm not throwing shade on vortex entirely, I just have found much better deals than vortex in the last few years. I mentioned above maven b2s are at the top of the heap for my next binos, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to put them head to head with comparable binos from meopta, leupold, zeiss, and vortex. In a long winded way I'm saying be somewhat brand agnostic, shop for deals, and do tons of research on said deals.
ImBillT
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Agreed. I have scopes from Meopta, Leupold, Sightron, Weaver, Docter, as well as some older Japanese scopes of various brands. I’ve never paid over $450 for a scope. In most cases paid 50% of MSRP or less! Not only that, I’m confident that there are other Japanese scopes out there that cost less than a similar Vortex and are at least just as good, if not better.
HandgunHunter
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I have 2 of the Razor line.
when we get into optics of this price point, capabilities, and purpose I start looking at what is being used by the long range competition world.
nightforce dominates that world and second I see more sightron than any other brand besides nightforce.
With all this said 9/10 times I will buy American products first if available. Hard to be pro American workers and then buy import stuff.
We must go to different matches.
I shoot as many PRS stlyle matches as my work schedule allows and I’v hosted a few as well. Razors outnumber every other optic by a wide margin. They’ve been in the top 3 since they came out. A very close second is the ATACR and third would be a tie between Khales and Schmidt and Bender. The Bushnell XRS2 and DMR2 are a close 4 th. I’ve only seen a handful of Sightrons and never seen one in the top 10. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
I shoot as many PRS stlyle matches as my work schedule allows and I’v hosted a few as well. Razors outnumber every other optic by a wide margin. They’ve been in the top 3 since they came out. A very close second is the ATACR and third would be a tie between Khales and Schmidt and Bender. The Bushnell XRS2 and DMR2 are a close 4 th. I’ve only seen a handful of Sightrons and never seen one in the top 10. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
HandgunHunter
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PRS wouldn’t quite be at the accuracy level I am talking about.
F class or bench rest.
HandgunHunter
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The giant....targets in PRS don’t really compare to kill zones on animals either.
PRS matches are all different formats...but 99% of those don’t require ranging under time so it’s still known distance.
I have only competed in a handful of prs matches....I have only been asked not to return to one
. I just shoot them with an xp100single shot pistol....sometimes I do ok...Similar threads
