HB 1175

[GST]

It’s not my intent to turn this into a pro anti baiting thread to be beat to death again

A question was asked in regards to a management choice by our GF and thats what the discussion is meant to address

 

[GST]

In Montana we have literally not changed virtually anything in 40 years regarding deer management. Meanwhile our resident population has doubled, the age of the hardcore traveling nr was ushered in, technology in hunting is a big issue, so on and so forth. The fact that your game agency reacts at all is what you are taking for granted. I will be picking up another archery tag in your state. It’s amazing what crossing an invisible line from a state that has virtually no management to one that at least tries does for the hunting. But carry on with your ranting…just saying to some on here, you come across as a whiny landowner that is really out of touch.

This would lend itself to suggest that maybe the “ experts” in these agencies don’t have all the answers or are willing to ignore input they should be listening to

So here in ND when that happens the people get involved through the legislature with these bills because our state Constitution specifically allows that for the wildlife to be managed both “ by law and regulation” and the people to have that input

Just maybe that involvement of we the people in that legislative process is why you think ND is being managed better than Mt…

 

[rogerthat]

This would lend itself to suggest that maybe the “ experts” in these agencies don’t have all the answers or are willing to ignore input they should be listening to

So here in ND when that happens the people get involved through the legislature with these bills because our state Constitution specifically allows that for the wildlife to be managed both “ by law and regulation” and the people to have that input

Just maybe that involvement of we the people in that legislative process is why you think ND is being managed better than Mt…

Not at all. Maybe your game and fish doesn’t do as bad as you think? Just something for you to think about. Having politics be part of fish and game management is going to work great for you as long as the politics support your position but when the political winds shift…then what? It’s a really bad way to run a game and fish agency. Some people struggle to see the downsides when they are “winning”. Good luck with your legislative fix in your state. I will keep hunting your state until it’s as chitty or chittier than my home state or your legislature bans me.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You completely missed the context of that discussion …. If you are good with some hunters demeaning other hunters because of a choice they make in how they hunt… maybe we need to stop and think a bit about where that leads

Everyone hunts for their own different reason and how they can or choose … if we as hunters start belittling and decreeing others have to make the same choices we do in order to be a real hunter …….. thats not a road I travel

Your claims of belittling may be true but it's hard to take your word for it because of the way the pro-baiting crowd has used handicapped/kids/veterans like AOC uses racism, the patriarchy, and transphobia.

Sorry for the thread drift..

 

[GST]

Not at all. Maybe your game and fish doesn’t do as bad as you think? Just something for you to think about. Having politics be part of fish and game management is going to work great for you as long as the politics support your position but when the political winds shift…then what? It’s a really bad way to run a game and fish agency. Some people struggle to see the downsides when they are “winning”. Good luck with your legislative fix in your state. I will keep hunting your state until it’s as chitty or chittier than my home state or your legislature bans me.

I have never said nor do I believe our NDGF sucks… simply in a couple regards ( pretty big ones for our states main big game animal) they dropped the ball

When I first started attending advisory meetings they didn’t have a management plan to share

After providing examples they at least are making an effort to have a better handle on managing our deer

The biggest issues took place 15-20 years ago and the consequences carried over into the 2011-….. time frame

The reason we need to look back is when people claim we need to sit back and let the “ experts” manage our wildlife … there are examples of that not working out so well all the time

I think most would agree over populations of wildlife is what jump starts most disease issues …. Is it coincidence that one year after we had the record high in our deer populations numbers and a significant die off here in ND that CWD surfaced ?

I think CWD has always been around ( scrappies has for decades) but a weakened deer herd and increased testing found it

We can debate the “science” all we want ..when the average age of the deer herd is 3.5….. CWD will not become an epidemic wiping out herds the science of how CWD progresses tells us that

Are there aspects of CWD that can impact hunting…. Yep …. But wiping out deer herds like EHD is not one of them

So when an honest discussion of how best to address something is used to drive other narratives or agendas by an agency …and the fact based part of the discussion is prostituted for an agenda by those charged with managing our wildlife (ethics of baiting instead of actual degree of transference increase) …. Is that the best management path forward ? I don’t think so and those that would do so need to be held accountable

When you start to pick and choose which science you will apply based on an alternative reason you minimize any claim science is what is driving your management program

 

[GST]

Your claims of belittling may be true but it's hard to take your word for it because of the way the pro-baiting crowd has used handicapped/kids/veterans like AOC uses racism, the patriarchy, and transphobia.

Sorry for the thread drift..

There is a live stream video of the last fall advisory meeting held at the GF building in Bismarck where this occurred

My guess is it is archived on the GF website

The comments made on this site would tend to give credibility to that even if an actual video did not exist

 

[GST]

Your claims of belittling may be true but it's hard to take your word for it because of the way the pro-baiting crowd has used handicapped/kids/veterans like AOC uses racism, the patriarchy, and transphobia.

Sorry for the thread drift..

Hopefully this link works

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=6071815676186565

 

[GST]

Listen at about the 20 minute mark I promise you sitting in an elevated stand over a food plot here in ND with a 6.5 PRC and a sand bag rest a kid would kill a deer every night

So by the reasons given in this video by those decreeing what is hunting that should be illegal as well

The one guy wants ND to be “ fair chase” Okay is setting up a caldwell rest with a $4800 custom 6.5 creedmore with a $3000 Leica range finding binos and a $2800 Leupold scope with custom ballistic turrets dropping a deer at 970 yards “ fair chase”? Is that hunting ? If not do we ban that ?

I guarantee you the guy shooting at that deer at 970 yards is likely gonna wound more than the guy slipping an arrow through one at 15 yards over a bait pile so which is less ethical?

When your GF is ran by those that would let people go down that path pitting one hunter against another…. It is time step in and stop us from eating our own

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Listen at about the 20 minute mark I promise you sitting in an elevated stand over a food plot here in ND with a 6.5 PRC and a sand bag rest a kid would kill a deer every night

So by the reasons given in this video by those decreeing what is hunting that should be illegal as well

The one guy wants ND to be “ fair chase” Okay is setting up a caldwell rest with a $4800 custom 6.5 creedmore with a $3000 Leica range finding binos and a $2800 Leupold scope with custom ballistic turrets dropping a deer at 970 yards “ fair chase”? Is that hunting ? If not do we ban that ?

I guarantee you the guy shooting at that deer at 970 yards is likely gonna wound more than the guy slipping an arrow through one at 15 yards over a bait pile so which is less ethical?

When your GF is ran by those that would let people go down that path pitting one hunter against another…. It is time step in and stop us from eating our own

I listened to the part from about 19:30-23:30 - Is that where I was supposed to hear someone belittling handicapped people? I heard nothing remotely close.

 

[GST]

I listened to the part from about 19:30-23:30 - Is that where I was supposed to hear someone belittling handicapped people? I heard nothing remotely close.

So you didn’t hear the “selfish” you are not teaching these kids how to hunt thats not hunting comments ???

So a handicapped kid who is stoked over going hunting with his dad and non handicapped brother that go spot and stalk in the Badlands that finally gets to go hunting with them learns that just because there was a pile of corn involved some jack ass just jerked his experience hunting out from under him

So the deer he shot over a bait pile really isn’t hunting and it really doesn’t count and he isn’t really a hunter like his Dad and brother …. And your okay with your GF director sitting there letting that narrative diminish what that kid accomplished that fall ??????

People that want to dictate what someone else must take from the experience …in order to grant that person the approval of what they did is or is not hunting …. don’t have a clue what that experience really truly is

How arrogant does someone have to be to state out loud what someone has to do to be accepted as a “hunter”

I will think more of the guy working two jobs that brings his kid out to a stand we have Sunday night and they both shoot a doe 30 minutes apart over a little pile of corn to make sausage out of than I will some arrogant ass that belittles them cause they aren’t hunters because his profile pic is some Stone sheep he hunted 16 days to kill cause he makes $240,000 a year and has 40 days vacation …. But by God that fella knows who is and who isn’t a hunter

 

[Schaaf]

 

[GST]

View attachment 267704

Ha good one might have to try the carrots…I know the deer LOVE the peas in the food plots

 

[Wind Gypsy]

So you didn’t hear the “selfish” you are not teaching these kids how to hunt thats not hunting comments ???

So a handicapped kid who is stoked over going hunting with his dad and non handicapped brother that go spot and stalk in the Badlands that finally gets to go hunting with them learns that just because there was a pile of corn involved some jack ass just jerked his experience hunting out from under him

So the deer he shot over a bait pile really isn’t hunting and it really doesn’t count and he isn’t really a hunter like his Dad and brother …. And your okay with your GF director sitting there letting that narrative diminish what that kid accomplished that fall ??????

People that want to dictate what someone else must take from the experience …in order to grant that person the approval of what they did is or is not hunting …. don’t have a clue what that experience really truly is

How arrogant does someone have to be to state out loud what someone has to do to be accepted as a “hunter”

I will think more of the guy working two jobs that brings his kid out to a stand we have Sunday night and they both shoot a doe 30 minutes apart over a little pile of corn to make sausage out of than I will some arrogant ass that belittles them cause they aren’t hunters because his profile pic is some Stone sheep he hunted 16 days to kill cause he makes $240,000 a year and has 40 days vacation …. But by God that fella knows who is and who isn’t a hunter

I'm not sure where to start with this but @Hunting Wife boxed it up cleanly with this

Sooo…..you don’t like the public not being able to provide comment, but you don’t like members of the public commenting when you don’t like the comments, and you want the Director to censor those comments you don’t like.

But everyone else is the arrogant one…

I heard a member of the public state his opinion which you seem to want censored because it might hurt someone's feelings.

The ND Pro-Baiting Lobby hiding behind kids/hadicapped/veterans really is more like AOC blaming the racism/the patriarchy/transphobia than i thought. Maybe the ND Pro-Baiting lobby should have those poor kids sit in a safe space until they can censor out any comments from joe 6 pack who has a differing opinion.

 

[GST]

I listened to the part from about 19:30-23:30 - Is that where I was supposed to hear someone belittling handicapped people? I heard nothing remotely close.


listen at the 24.30 mark not only is this guy telling anyone including a handicapped person what they did that fall was mot hunting … ergo then you are not a hunter…. He tells them they are selfish as well

And Jeb Williams our director stands right there silent instead of speaking out that as hunters we can’t afford to get into a circular firing squad throwing each other under the bus

This isn’t about science… its not about managing the resource properly ….

 

[GST]

I'm not sure where to start with this but @Hunting Wife boxed it up cleanly with this


I heard a member of the public state his opinion which you seem to want censored because it might hurt someone's feelings.

The ND Pro-Baiting Lobby hiding behind kids/hadicapped/veterans really is more like AOC blaming the racism/the patriarchy/transphobia than i thought. Maybe the ND Pro-Baiting lobby should have those poor kids sit in a safe space until they can censor out any comments from joe 6 pack who has a differing opinion.

If you are okay with somebodies “ opinion” belittling other people while our director sits there watching as hunters turn on each other …. That certainly is your choice

 

[GST]

The ND Pro-Baiting Lobby hiding behind kids/hadicapped/veterans really is more like AOC blaming the racism/the patriarchy/transphobia than i thought. Maybe the ND Pro-Baiting lobby should have those poor kids sit in a safe space until they can censor out any comments from joe 6 pack who has a differing opinion.

How about they just ask other hunters not to belittle “ those poor kids” hunting experience

 

[Hunting Wife]

I know the job of the NDGF is not an easy one and you never make everyone happy but when you are streaming live an advisory meeting that is being attended by adaptive sports orgs and the kids and adults the help and some arrogant ass takes the mike and belittles them as not being real hunters because they use the tool of baiting and your NDGF director stands 3 feet away and doesn’t step in and shut that down and say hey maybe as hunters we should not be tearing each other down…..the arrogance of their position is pretty obvious

listen at the 24.30 mark not only is this guy telling anyone including a handicapped person what they did that fall was mot hunting … ergo then you are not a hunter…. He tells them they are selfish as well

And Jeb Williams our director stands right there silent instead of speaking out that as hunters we can’t afford to get into a circular firing squad throwing each other under the bus

Thanks for the video and time stamp. After listening, the only conclusion I come to is that you sure editorialized the guy’s comments and put a whole lot of words in his mouth. There was no yelling, belittling, no arrogance, or anything else you are claiming. He simply and calmly stated an opinion that runs counter to yours. And you think that should be censored. The Director did exactly what he should have done…listened to another constituent calmly voice their opinion.

Honestly, this really gives a lot of insight into your understanding of public resources, the public process, and the way you choose to participate in that process.

If you don’t like people making comments about the kids, then stop using them as human shields in this debate.

 

[GST]

Thanks for the video and time stamp. After listening, the only conclusion I come to is that you sure editorialized the guy’s comments and put a whole lot of words in his mouth. There was no yelling, belittling, no arrogance, or anything else you are claiming. He simply and calmly stated an opinion that runs counter to yours. And you think that should be censored. The Director did exactly what he should have done…listened to another constituent calmly voice their opinion.

Honestly, this really gives a lot of insight into your understanding of public resources, the public process, and the way you choose to participate in that process.

If you don’t like people making comments about the kids, then stop using them as human shields in this debate.

Where did I say there was yelling? Like I said if you are okay with someone telling a handicapped person whatvthey just did shooting a deer over a pole of corn is not hunting and they are not a hunter … thats your choice

Its not important enough to me to shove my idea of hunting on someone to take away their own belief

 

[GST]

Thanks for the video and time stamp. After listening, the only conclusion I come to is that you sure editorialized the guy’s comments and put a whole lot of words in his mouth. There was no yelling, belittling, no arrogance, or anything else you are claiming. He simply and calmly stated an opinion that runs counter to yours. And you think that should be censored. The Director did exactly what he should have done…listened to another constituent calmly voice their opinion.

Honestly, this really gives a lot of insight into your understanding of public resources, the public process, and the way you choose to participate in that process.

If you don’t like people making comments about the kids, then stop using them as human shields in this debate.

I am try curious why people feel
the need to force THEIR beliefs of what hunting should be on others … I don’t get it

Hunting is a uniquely personal sport and activity … and it should remain that way or we lose the meaning to each of us

I just don’t get why someone feels the need to belittle how someone else hunts

 

[GST]

Thanks for the video and time stamp. After listening, the only conclusion I come to is that you sure editorialized the guy’s comments and put a whole lot of words in his mouth. There was no yelling, belittling, no arrogance, or anything else you are claiming. He simply and calmly stated an opinion that runs counter to yours. And you think that should be censored. The Director did exactly what he should have done…listened to another constituent calmly voice their opinion.

Honestly, this really gives a lot of insight into your understanding of public resources, the public process, and the way you choose to participate in that process.

If you don’t like people making comments about the kids, then stop using them as human shields in this debate.

Everyone has the right to say what they wish …. I was disappointed our Director couldn’t communicate that belittling some one elses choices had no place in the discussion

It you state how someone else chooses to hunt is not hunting … you are belittling there choice

This was live streammed these meetings were going to discuss this upcoming bill

The director could have prefaced the discussion with a simple comment not to make personal claims or accusations of that nature

The next tome some adaptive sports org posts a cideo of someone ahooring a deer over bait…. Make sure you are the first one posting on their page that what just occurred was not hunting

The thing is that is what is driving the entire debate…. a disease that has had 1 deer found dead in the wild with CWD in 13 years is being used and “ management” is being prostituted to ban an ethics issue by the “experts” …. AOC would be proud