shoots-straight
Well-known member
I didn't say to take those words as the gospel truth on the subject. I said it related to the thread, and would make you think. (Hopefully). There is some truth in what he says here.
Has long range hunting gone too far?
- Thread starter elkaholic06
- Start date
I didn't say to take those words as the gospel truth on the subject. I said it related to the thread, and would make you think. (Hopefully). There is some truth in what he says here.
Southwind
New member
Might as well throw in.
30 years plus of competitive shooting including NRA High power cross course considered mid range shot at ranges 200-300- and 600 yards, NRA High Power Long range 1000 yards.
Although I have a lot of experience shooting long range and know what it takes to make a good longe range shot my personal limit on hunting animals is +/- 400 yards. Give me a 50 yard or in shot every day.
Why? Hunting is an intimate experience for me mono e mono in their playground or in other words "fair chase". That phrase needs to be pondered deeply by the hunter.
The majority of long range themed programming I feel is shooting and not much hunting. Most times there is a huge disconnect with the animal with the emphasis being solely on "the shot". I don't have a problem with taking a long range shot if you know what you are doing as long as you are not more enamored with your shot as you are with the animal and making a good lethal kill.
I will take it even further and not just in long range hunting programming but I feel like I see a lot of very questionable shots taken I believe because of the pressure to get it on film. Maybe it's just on my mind but I really feel like I see a lot more very poor shots taken. I am talking in generalities and not specifics which isn't exactly fair. Let's face it there is a lot of competition out there to make it in the outdoor programming business and frankly there is a lot of it that shouldn't be aired. IMO
It makes you appreciate programs like Randy's and all the effort that goes into producing such a quality program. He is not alone there are others I like but you have to sift through a lot of sub par stuff to get the good stuff.
30 years plus of competitive shooting including NRA High power cross course considered mid range shot at ranges 200-300- and 600 yards, NRA High Power Long range 1000 yards.
Although I have a lot of experience shooting long range and know what it takes to make a good longe range shot my personal limit on hunting animals is +/- 400 yards. Give me a 50 yard or in shot every day.
Why? Hunting is an intimate experience for me mono e mono in their playground or in other words "fair chase". That phrase needs to be pondered deeply by the hunter.
The majority of long range themed programming I feel is shooting and not much hunting. Most times there is a huge disconnect with the animal with the emphasis being solely on "the shot". I don't have a problem with taking a long range shot if you know what you are doing as long as you are not more enamored with your shot as you are with the animal and making a good lethal kill.
I will take it even further and not just in long range hunting programming but I feel like I see a lot of very questionable shots taken I believe because of the pressure to get it on film. Maybe it's just on my mind but I really feel like I see a lot more very poor shots taken. I am talking in generalities and not specifics which isn't exactly fair. Let's face it there is a lot of competition out there to make it in the outdoor programming business and frankly there is a lot of it that shouldn't be aired. IMO
It makes you appreciate programs like Randy's and all the effort that goes into producing such a quality program. He is not alone there are others I like but you have to sift through a lot of sub par stuff to get the good stuff.
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Yet they hang their name on a reticle offered by Leupold to enable folks to shoot at what many consider "long range" (ie. 500+ yards)...
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
Biggest thing for me is my confidence level within 300 yards. I practice enough that I am 100% confident on a lethal hit out to 300 yards. At 400 (my personal limitation) more variables start to come in to play and I won't take the shot unless the animal is calm, the wind is not blowing crazy, and I have a solid rest. I also have found it very effective to use a standard reticle and sight in 3" high at 100 yards. This puts me +/- a maximum of 3.8 inches out to 350 yards w/ the 270 and 300 mag, which is well within the kill zone of a muley buck or elk. At 400, if the conditions are right, I hold the horizontal crosshair level with the top of the back.
3855WIN
Well-known member
A 200 yard shot offhand may not be as good as a 400 yard shot with a solid rest. Backing up to set some kind of record is ridiculous. When a 1,000 yard shot is attempted, is it always followed up to see if they drew blood? At that distance, there may not be much reaction from the animal because of the loss of energy. It also seems that it could be hard to find the exact spot the animal was standing from an extreme range.
I agree that things have gotten out of hand but I think there are a lot of people talking out their asses. Shooting distance is a personal choice and just like anything else, people make bad choices and give a group of people a bad name.
I personally limit myself to ~600 yards with my rifle (depending on caliber, size of game, and conditions) and ~60 yards with my bow with the same considerations. People often forget that their projectile needs to retain enough energy to get the job done once it makes it do the critter. There is an interesting section and table in the Applied Ballistics book that talks about this.
How many of you don't bat an eye at someone shooting a deer with their bow at 50 yards but think it's 'unethical' to shoot a deer and 500 yards with their rifle? Flight time is about the same so what is the difference? How many people here are content with a 2" group at 100 yards when the sight in their deer rifle off a bench and don't hesitate to shoot at a deer at 300 yards while resting on a log? How big of a group are they shooting at 300 with an unstable rest and pulse rate of 95? When you stop and think about it, people have been shooting farther than they should for years. It's just a lot easier to bash the people that do it at 600 yards than 300 yards.
No matter what you talk about, there are always people that work past their limits...
I personally limit myself to ~600 yards with my rifle (depending on caliber, size of game, and conditions) and ~60 yards with my bow with the same considerations. People often forget that their projectile needs to retain enough energy to get the job done once it makes it do the critter. There is an interesting section and table in the Applied Ballistics book that talks about this.
How many of you don't bat an eye at someone shooting a deer with their bow at 50 yards but think it's 'unethical' to shoot a deer and 500 yards with their rifle? Flight time is about the same so what is the difference? How many people here are content with a 2" group at 100 yards when the sight in their deer rifle off a bench and don't hesitate to shoot at a deer at 300 yards while resting on a log? How big of a group are they shooting at 300 with an unstable rest and pulse rate of 95? When you stop and think about it, people have been shooting farther than they should for years. It's just a lot easier to bash the people that do it at 600 yards than 300 yards.
No matter what you talk about, there are always people that work past their limits...
shoots-straight
Well-known member
For me, it's not about bashing anyone, it's more about educating. I hope to get people to think about what it is that they want to get out of hunting. Is it learning woodsmanship skills so they can outsmart a wild cunning animal within a lethal guaranteed death range, or do they want to just rely upon technology and shoot animals at long ranges. Are the hero shots so important to them that sitting in the back of the truck with a .50 call on a turret using the latest equipment for windage and elevation, what is it they want? To be fair, archery is also being pushed to extreme ranges by many that have no business shooting at those distances. If that's the direction of the sport I see no good coming from it. Also to point out that there is a price to pay for embracing the latest technology. Easier kills with declining populations of game will result in one thing. Right now, we have high populations of game in many areas of the country, but I don't expect that to continue. Time will tell on that part.
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T
tjones
Guest
You never hear about the wounded game from the guys shooting minute of a milk jug at 1000 yards. They waste no time peddling the kills.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Long range shooting is all about trolling the brag. Have you ever seen hero shot and post where the exact yardage, sometimes to the half yard, isn't included? Its not about the hunt its all about the kill at xyz distance.
Personally I couldn't care less about long range hunting. If that's what floats your boat, so be it. I don't think success rates have increased due to long range shooting. There are many other things that promote success to a much higher degree than shooting at long range. Odds are those guys that kill animals at long range would probably kill one at close range, because they are smart enough hunters to find the game in the first place. A gut shot at 250 yards is the same as a gut shot at 1000. As long as there is a follow up, who cares.
I've taken somewhere in the neighborhood of a 150 big game animals, only one that I know for sure was over 400 yards, and it was just over 400. I've always managed to get closer, or blow the stalk trying. I don't lose sleep over not filling a tag, or knowing that if I had just had the best equipment or spent countless days at the range, I could have killed that animal. I'm not that desperate to let the world know I shot an animal at 853 yards...
Personally I couldn't care less about long range hunting. If that's what floats your boat, so be it. I don't think success rates have increased due to long range shooting. There are many other things that promote success to a much higher degree than shooting at long range. Odds are those guys that kill animals at long range would probably kill one at close range, because they are smart enough hunters to find the game in the first place. A gut shot at 250 yards is the same as a gut shot at 1000. As long as there is a follow up, who cares.
I've taken somewhere in the neighborhood of a 150 big game animals, only one that I know for sure was over 400 yards, and it was just over 400. I've always managed to get closer, or blow the stalk trying. I don't lose sleep over not filling a tag, or knowing that if I had just had the best equipment or spent countless days at the range, I could have killed that animal. I'm not that desperate to let the world know I shot an animal at 853 yards...
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. There are lots of people that like the 'glamour' of shooting animals and long distances. Many people need to focus on their hunting skills much more than their shooting skills but you also see a lot of good hunters that have stepped into the long range game. It's just another tool. If I spend every weekend in the woods over the summer and fall and kill a 350" bull at 500 yards and 7 miles from the truck does that mean that I was unethical or didn't deserve to kill him because I wasn't a 'good' hunter?
I'm just saying dont lump everyone together that shoots an animal past 400 yards or whatever the magic number is. A capable long range rifle is just another tool for a capable hunter just like trail cams and google earth.
tjones- Minute of milk jug at 1k is actually a pretty good feat as long as it 9 out of 10 are hits....
bobbydean
Well-known member
If I could shoot accurately at 1000 yards, I would. I cannot! I am comfortable at 300 and in open country 400 is not impossible. I would have to think about. I only shot one deer at over 300, Running shot across a basin with a clear field. I should not have take the shot. I did and hit the deer in the spine and dropped. I was aiming at the shoulder and missed my shot by 6 inches. I was wrong, but still one of my memorable experiences!
WildRHK
New member
Good discussion.
Honestly, I often get disappointed with 'fads' in the hunting world...it seems like so many times we get glazed over by the glitz and glamour of something and all of a sudden, everyone is using this or doing that. (Go ahead, call me old fashioned.)
Often it seems to me that we (and this is just my opinion; I'm not saying this applies all the time or to everyone) loose sight of the basic virtues that appealed to us in the beginning, when we started hunting.
Then, we just settle on infighting and judging one another over that particular issue. Granted there are always extremes that need to be called out, but personal choice is what it is...Unless we allow regulation to place such narrow side-boards on the how of the matter, then there is always going to be a degree of gray zone for everyone and anyone to interpret differently.
OK, I’ll shut up now.
Honestly, I often get disappointed with 'fads' in the hunting world...it seems like so many times we get glazed over by the glitz and glamour of something and all of a sudden, everyone is using this or doing that. (Go ahead, call me old fashioned.)
Often it seems to me that we (and this is just my opinion; I'm not saying this applies all the time or to everyone) loose sight of the basic virtues that appealed to us in the beginning, when we started hunting.
Then, we just settle on infighting and judging one another over that particular issue. Granted there are always extremes that need to be called out, but personal choice is what it is...Unless we allow regulation to place such narrow side-boards on the how of the matter, then there is always going to be a degree of gray zone for everyone and anyone to interpret differently.
OK, I’ll shut up now.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
In my younger days I used to try to make shots at whatever distance I was presented with. Including a shot I got damn lucky with at 416 on a small WT doe in MT. As Mr. Renella has expressed, the line in the sand should be draw when you go from thinking "Do I want backstrap or heart tonight?" to "I wonder if I can hit that" or "I think I can make this shot". For me, and the amount I practice, under 300 is a must, under 100 is even better and typically ensure I'll be eating well.
This conversation always cracks me up.
It seems the long range topic comes up often on many different forums yet I hardly ever see someone bring up shooting at a running animal? How many of you who have commented on this thread have shot at running game more than 100 yards away? Have you taken the time to practice that shot enough to become 100% confident? One person here even commented on taking a shot at a running animal at 300 yards...yet, not a single comment on that?
If you are member of a shooting range and it has a sight in day that's open to the public I suggest you volunteer on those days to help the public sight in their rifles....you'll be amazed at what you see. You'll find many, many people who shoot 5-10 rounds to make sure they can hit a paper plate at 100 yards and they call it good. A vast majority of hunters in the woods fall into this category. Where are the threads about this?
I would make the bet that there are far more animals wounded by these types of hunters and those that shoot at running game than are wounded by "long range hunters". Every long range hunter that I know spends far more time on the range, knows their weapon and load, and is more accurate at 500 than the person who spends one day a year to make sure the ol '06 is still good. Yet, not a single one of them won't try to get as close as possible if the terrain allows.
Long range is up to the person behind the rifle, not you or me. If they have put in the time and feel confident in their skills and conditions I have no problem with their choice...they have to live with the results. Like others have said, it's just another tool in the toolbox and I like to have all the tools at my disposal.
It seems the long range topic comes up often on many different forums yet I hardly ever see someone bring up shooting at a running animal? How many of you who have commented on this thread have shot at running game more than 100 yards away? Have you taken the time to practice that shot enough to become 100% confident? One person here even commented on taking a shot at a running animal at 300 yards...yet, not a single comment on that?
If you are member of a shooting range and it has a sight in day that's open to the public I suggest you volunteer on those days to help the public sight in their rifles....you'll be amazed at what you see. You'll find many, many people who shoot 5-10 rounds to make sure they can hit a paper plate at 100 yards and they call it good. A vast majority of hunters in the woods fall into this category. Where are the threads about this?
I would make the bet that there are far more animals wounded by these types of hunters and those that shoot at running game than are wounded by "long range hunters". Every long range hunter that I know spends far more time on the range, knows their weapon and load, and is more accurate at 500 than the person who spends one day a year to make sure the ol '06 is still good. Yet, not a single one of them won't try to get as close as possible if the terrain allows.
Long range is up to the person behind the rifle, not you or me. If they have put in the time and feel confident in their skills and conditions I have no problem with their choice...they have to live with the results. Like others have said, it's just another tool in the toolbox and I like to have all the tools at my disposal.
Ridgerunner6901
Well-known member
I'd hate to think of how many gutshot critters the average person who routinely takes shots on past 500 yards have left in their wake. I think a hunter should try and get in the same general area as his quarry before he starts putting lead in the air.
Jchristians
Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2021
- Messages
- 45
I’m personally not a big fan of long range hunting. I personally don’t get exited over it. I love the moments of having that buck run up to 10-20 yards. I personally feel like with shooting animals long range doesn’t give the animals a very fair chance. But that’s just how I look at it.
BackofBeyond
Well-known member
holy Lazarus thread!
D
Deleted member 40728
Guest
What about chasing them on foot until the animal has a heart attack, spear hunting, or running them down with a mini van?
