Harvesting Wildlife

[Europe]

This is a touchy subject in a few places these days. As a woman, I have heard my fair share of "how can you kill when you were made to bring life into the world, not take it away" --"someone should kill your children, or your grandchildren or you " and those are some of the mildest things I have heard, that is fit to print.

I did not hear anything in the 40,s 50,s 60,s or 70,s but sometime in the eighties and nineties it started and the volume has been turned up every year thereafter.

Even in a civil conversation with people, they ask, "how do you feel when you take a life", or harvest an animal.

And the truth is my feelings have run from jubilation, especially if it was a hard hunt, to sadness and even anger at myself, if it wasn't a clean kill and not because I have to look for the animal. I have passed on a lot of shots because I was not confident it would be a one shot kill. I have always enjoyed the meat and no matter how hard I try to explain that my killing of a moose is no different than someone killing a steer for their dinner table ( or hog, sheep, chicken, etc ). If hunting Africa, you get chastised for "Trophy" hunting but the meat goes to the villagers and the dollars spent on the hunt helps with the conservation of the animals.. But more often than not my explanation falls on deaf ears.

We have also felt fear when something went down in brown bear country and we prayed that we would not be challenged for the meat before we got our harvest out

Anyway, I was curious how you ladies and gentlemen "feel" when your prey falls to your bullet or arrow. Hoping to gather more ammo, so to speak, for my next confrontation with the anti's and I am also curious if those under 50 have a different take on this subject than those over 50.

thank you

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I wonder if in part the anti-hunting sentiment is a product of non-contextualized exposure due to media. The term vegetarian, has been around since 1847 and there have been vegetarians in various cultures for much longer than that, so I don't think the anti-hunting idea is new. I do think that if you were an urbanite in the 50s, your only exposure to hunting was probably through a friend or relative in a rural area who hunted and therefore when exposed to it you were being told about it by someone you respected and given a more nuanced narrative.

In the 60s and 70s I would imagine hunting exposure was limited to the print medium and tended to be read by only those already interested in hunting. Those producing content for these publications were authors like Jack O'Connor that new how to construct a narrative and told hunting stories, and focused on the adventure aspect of the hunt.

I would imagine that starting in the 80s and 90s there started to be more and more TV media about hunting that showed kill shots and grip and grins with 0 effort put into the discussion of food or conservation and had very little story telling.

Obviously today you can go on instagram and twitter and there are a ton of idiots posting pictures of dead animals with hashtags like #ifitsbrownitsdown, I'm not surprised that so many people are anti-hunting with this being their first and only exposure to the sport. I think people like Newberg and Rinella, who are trying to interject nuance into our sport are our best hope showing a more fully developed picture of our sport.

Most of my friends don't hunt and/or are skeptical of the sport, I always focus the discussion on food, conservation, and explain that it is highly regulated. I also recommend Rinella's documentary.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/starsinthesky/314093504

Africa is a tough sell, simply because the realities of African life are some completely different than are own and it's really hard to get people to understand wild life and conservation in that context. My sister, not a hunter, works in public health and has been to Africa (Liberia, Sierra Leone, Zambia, Tanzania, and Ghana) something like 14 times in the last 3 years. It took me about two sentences to explain "trophy" hunting to her. Essentially, "So given your experiences in west Africa do you think there will be elephants or any other wildlife on the continent if they don't clear and specific monetary value. Can you think of another way to monetize an animal like a crocodile or hippo?"

 

[bobbydean]

My feelings depend on the age of the animal. A gnarly old buck, I take pride in my harvest. Young bucks are a source of pride but a little wistful feeling that I should have let them grow up.

Been on a couple of depredation hunts that I shot small does. Felt like hell. Still remember my 10 year old at the time daughter looking over the side of the truck excited as she could be and her face following when seeing that tiny doe. Still the best tasting deer I have ever had.

 

[WildWill]

For me there is always a mix of elation and remorse when I kill a animal. When I'm asked "how can you kill a innocent animal" I immediately ask if they eat meat. 99% say yes I then inform them that they're killing just as many as me they're just paying a middle man to do the dirty work and that the animals they eat are caged pumped with chemicals and hormones and killed young. At least I give my meat a fair chance at outsmarting me. People are so disconnected from their own food chain now days most have little concept of what it takes to make their dinner. I've met people who think that only old animals( cows,pigs,chickens) that have died of natural causes are harvested for meat.

 

[NR_Hunter]

Depends on the animal really. I always get a little sad when I make a mess of a young deer and there’s blood all over, but there are animals species in specific, although I still always strive to kill them as quickly and humanely as possible, I almost feel like a have a personal animosity towards snow geese and turkeys and I don’t feel bad when I shoot them.

 

[406LIFE]

The Hunter's Paradox: How can you kill what you claim to love?

I think this is a legitimate question that we get asked, and we all should be prepared to have a thought out, sincere, and personal answer. It includes the ethos behind what we hunt, the methods we use, and the ultimate use of the animal. It isn't a answer in a debate or argument, but an insight into oneself as a hunter for the benefit of the one asking the question. Your answer probably will not sway someone and will certainly raise more questions, but what you do is start to build a bridge or connection that allows more dialogue to take place.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

Oddly enough I've never really ran into anti hunting people. In college I had some vegan friends that just said hunting was fine as long as you use every part of the animal that you can. As a woman though, I've definitely been told woman shouldn't hunt more than once.

As far as what I feel when my prey falls...I feel like its initially different in every situation, but always ends in the same place of a little sadness. When I shot my first buck (I had way more buck fever than I care to admit), I was shaking with excitement and just watched it fall. After walking up to it and seeing it dead, I felt a rush of sadness followed by a thankful feeling. Personally I think you should feel a bit of sadness, you have just ended a life and I dont think that should be taken lightly. Respect is important as well. But I have a differently feeling when I shoot a grouse. I'm not shaking with excitement I'm just very calm. Probably due to the fact that you can shoot more than just one and they are pretty easy to find. No miles of hard hiking required for them. But I do still feel a small bit of sadness looking into their eyes.
When I shot my doe last fall, I shot her right in the neck as to keep as much meat as possible. I watched her fall right over, dead instantly. I didnt have a rush of excitement, just really thankful that our family finally had some deer meat after so many years of not harvesting anything.

I can only imagine the feeling when I get my first elk. Hopefully I have enough experience now to just be calm to make the shot.

I think the only time I have felt anger is when I have missed at an animal. And that anger stems from me not wanting to injure the animal by making a poor shot, causing it to suffer. Luckily those misses have been complete misses and I did not injure the animal, but I can imagine I would feel sick to my stomach if it does happen. I realize gut shots happen and some things just dont go your way, but I try to minimize that error as much as possible. Ive definitely passed up many shots I've had because they didnt feel right. I think as hunters we always strive for that perfect shot (though I know there are people out there that just try to hit the animal any way they can).

I guess to sum it up for me, I always feel a bit of sadness when I come up to what I have just harvested. I think in my own way that's kind of respecting the animal. It's kind of strange to have to put it into words and I fear I have done a poor job in doing so. I always make sure none of the meat goes to waste.

 

[ignorethefringes]

The Hunter's Paradox: How can you kill what you claim to love?

I think this is a legitimate question that we get asked, and we all should be prepared to have a thought out, sincere, and personal answer. It includes the ethos behind what we hunt, the methods we use, and the ultimate use of the animal. It isn't a answer in a debate or argument, but an insight into oneself as a hunter for the benefit of the one asking the question. Your answer probably will not sway someone and will certainly raise more questions, but what you do is start to build a bridge or connection that allows more dialogue to take place.

I like Steven Rinella's response that he, ". . .loves the idea of deer more than the individual deer. . ." I always feel a little remorse at the kill, usually followed by immense appreciation at the sacrifice of life required to feed me and my family. I've never felt either of those things when buying meat from the store. The separation that most people have from the death that needs to occur to procure food is at least partly responsible for the blemished view of hunting. My wife and I recently have made the comment that every one who eats meat should at least once witness the process of slaughter/harvest, butchering, and preparation of an animal all the way through. I can't think of another way for someone to truly appreciate and respect the fact that an animal died to feed you.

Recently I was asked by the 11/12 year old daughter of friend why I enjoy hunting/killing. She was sitting in the back room of my house looking at the various pictures and antlers up on my walls. Although there are many possible answers, I always try and tailor my response to the audience. This time, I emphasized the free range, organic, non-GMO nature of the food procured along with knowing truly what I'm feeding my family and being responsible for the life required to feed them. She pondered the answer for a moment and then said that she understood.

 

[Panda Bear]

Animals are not just respected, but honored and any harvest thereof is celebrated with varied rituals of appreciation for their contribution to sustaining our life. We must and do attempt to use all parts of the animals, not just the meat.

We do not believe in "Wildlife Management", but we do believe in "People Management" and are very careful not to over harvest any species, wing, hoof, or fin. I am not aware of any extinct or threatened species that were put into that category without "people" being involved. I know this next statement will be contrary to the thinking of many, but we not only, do not hate the Wolf, we feel they are an important part of our way of life.

However; yes because we hunt and trap, ( and some view trapping to be even worse than hunting ), we have been sworn at, spit on, threatened, etc.

The short answer: when an animal gives his or her life to sustain ours--we feel grateful.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Anyway, I was curious how you ladies and gentlemen "feel" when your prey falls to your bullet or arrow. Hoping to gather more ammo, so to speak, for my next confrontation with the anti's and I am also curious if those under 50 have a different take on this subject than those over 50.

I realize that in my initial response I didn't address your question. To be honest I think discussing feelings around killing an animal is a poor rhetorical argument. I think that line of discussion leads to the idea for hunting to be a legitimate activity you should feel guilt and that if someone is posing with an animal they are a monster. I think we need to focus on why hunting is a sustainable and important activity despite the individual motivations of any specific actor. To your point the meat off an animal killed in Africa is used by the village and the tag goes to fund anti-poaching efforts, these things are true even if the hunter is a vapid narcissist.

 

[Panda Bear]

I realize that in my initial response I didn't address your question. To be honest I think discussing feelings around killing an animal is a poor rhetorical argument. I think that line of discussion leads to the idea for hunting to be a legitimate activity you should feel guilt and that if someone is posing with an animal they are a monster. I think we need to focus on why hunting is a sustainable and important activity despite the individual motivations of any specific actor. To your point the meat off an animal killed in Africa is used by the village and the tag goes to fund anti-poaching efforts, these things are true even if the hunter is a vapid narcissist.

Yes, and an argument that can not be won in most cases as in many cases, the questioner does not have an open mind about the subject. They are not trying to understand only to put you down somehow, make you feel guilty, and in some cases if you answer honestly, you can even put yourself or your family in jeopardy.

I have no problem with folks taking pictures of themselves with their downed animal, however we dont, as we feel it is being disrespectful to the animal, which gave its life to sustain us.

 

[bushman13]

To your point, I stopped watching all hunting shows when they started showing kills shots in the 90's. To me that moment should only be shared between the hunter and prey. I didn't start watching them again until MeatEater and now Newberg.

I wonder if in part the anti-hunting sentiment is a product of non-contextualized exposure due to media. The term vegetarian, has been around since 1847 and there have been vegetarians in various cultures for much longer than that, so I don't think the anti-hunting idea is new. I do think that if you were an urbanite in the 50s, your only exposure to hunting was probably through a friend or relative in a rural area who hunted and therefore when exposed to it you were being told about it by someone you respected and given a more nuanced narrative.

In the 60s and 70s I would imagine hunting exposure was limited to the print medium and tended to be read by only those already interested in hunting. Those producing content for these publications were authors like Jack O'Connor that new how to construct a narrative and told hunting stories, and focused on the adventure aspect of the hunt.

I would imagine that starting in the 80s and 90s there started to be more and more TV media about hunting that showed kill shots and grip and grins with 0 effort put into the discussion of food or conservation and had very little story telling.

Obviously today you can go on instagram and twitter and there are a ton of idiots posting pictures of dead animals with hashtags like #ifitsbrownitsdown, I'm not surprised that so many people are anti-hunting with this being their first and only exposure to the sport. I think people like Newberg and Rinella, who are trying to interject nuance into our sport are our best hope showing a more fully developed picture of our sport.

Most of my friends don't hunt and/or are skeptical of the sport, I always focus the discussion on food, conservation, and explain that it is highly regulated. I also recommend Rinella's documentary.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/starsinthesky/314093504

Africa is a tough sell, simply because the realities of African life are some completely different than are own and it's really hard to get people to understand wild life and conservation in that context. My sister, not a hunter, works in public health and has been to Africa (Liberia, Sierra Leone, Zambia, Tanzania, and Ghana) something like 14 times in the last 3 years. It took me about two sentences to explain "trophy" hunting to her. Essentially, "So given your experiences in west Africa do you think there will be elephants or any other wildlife on the continent if they don't clear and specific monetary value. Can you think of another way to monetize an animal like a crocodile or hippo?"

 

[Europe]

Excellent comments, explanations guidance

, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your replies--thank you

 

[Pucky Freak]

Probably the strongest anti-hunting sentiment I have experienced is from persons who consider the pursuit of killing an animal to be barbaric, heinous, and gratuitous. They are disgusted, repulsed, and perplexed as to how another human being would hunt by choice. These are folks who overwhelmingly do support subsistence hunting. I feel sad for the people who hold these views. Reason being, they are woefully ignorant, and their ignorance causes them unnecessary angst.

Humans have been hunting animals for hundreds of thousands of years. All of us have many ancestors who were master hunters. I am a paltry novice compared to those who survived for decades by way of their hunting skills. The #1 emotion I experience when hunting is reverence. I revere the sacred tradition of hunting, the beauty of the natural world, the lives of all animals. I also feel strong gratitude that I have the means, the time, and the freedom to hunt, whereas billions of people on earth do not.

I have spent thousands of hours reading about the animals I pursue, whether it is journal articles, books, blogs, magazines, or essays, in addition to all the time afield observing the life cycles of living things through the seasons. I am impassioned in being a champion for habitat preservation, wildlife management, and sound ecology in all environments.

When anti-hunters direct hateful statements towards me, I usually do not have a retort. I avoid sharing pictures of slain game to people I don't know, as I am concerned this might only reinforce harmful stereotypes. I do share about my outdoor experience by talking about the wonders of the natural world as a way to spark the interest of persons disconnected from their ecological roots.

So what do I feel when I take a life? Like others have said, it depends on the species.

I don't feel much of anything when shooting a dove - probably the #1 reason I don't do much dove hunting, as it is more like live target practice.

I experience incredible elation right after discovering that I made a nice clean shot on big game.

The hardest hunting experience I have had is not recovering a deer. I feel angry at myself, a knot of dread in my stomach, and remorse for the mistake I made in not making a better shot, and it lasts months afterwards. I remember these experiences much more clearly than when I killed by biggest buck.

Two years ago I shot a buck in the spine at close range, paralyzing half his body. I approached the animal from behind, grabbed the base of his antler, plunged my knife into his neck, and jerked it upward at an angle, severing arteries and veins. The buck jerked violently when the knife went in, then slowly relaxed and lapsed into unconsciousness within seconds. This was the closest I have come to feeling the reality of taking a life - I mostly felt calm. Also relieved to end his suffering, and happy to have logged another successful hunt.

 

[rideold]

I don't know that I will ever be able to truly describe how I feel before, during and right after killing an animal. I especially don't know that I can describe it to someone who does not hunt. I also do not think any description of the activity will ever change someone's opinion who is emotionally set against my lifestyle. I am very happy to have an honest discussion with someone about hunting if they are willing to meet me at the table with an open mind and not an agenda. I've no patience for agendas (my own or others). Folks put too much emotion and attention on the killing part of hunting and not enough on other 99% of the lifestyle. That's not to belittle the weighty act of taking a life to sustain my own but rather a commentary on how small a part of the life that element is.

 

[Europe]

I don't know that I will ever be able to truly describe how I feel before, during and right after killing an animal. I especially don't know that I can describe it to someone who does not hunt. I also do not think any description of the activity will ever change someone's opinion who is emotionally set against my lifestyle. I am very happy to have an honest discussion with someone about hunting if they are willing to meet me at the table with an open mind and not an agenda. I've no patience for agendas (my own or others). Folks put too much emotion and attention on the killing part of hunting and not enough on other 99% of the lifestyle. That's not to belittle the weighty act of taking a life to sustain my own but rather a commentary on how small a part of the life that element is.

Excellent point. Today we went to the Duomo ( a cathedral in florence that took 140 years to build ). We reserved our car for the Venice trip, Spent two hours trying to learn to draw the human body which I am not doing well at, even with a real life model right in front of me. I loved to hunt and loved hunting with my husband and family as much as hunting, hopefully some will understand that, loved sailing, loved raising a family, I love good wine----but hunting is not who I am, it is one of the many things I enjoy. I had a discussion recently that I refused to back down from with a group of females who were attempting to chastise hunters for killing an animal but thought it was o.k. to abort a baby, even after there was a heartbeat. One lowered herself to name calling and decided I was a stupid old bitch, but I held my ground.
It is also sometimes surprising to me that those who have lived 1/3 of the time others have lived have so much more "life" knowledge--but I digress your fault rideold, your post got me all wound up (-; but it was a good post and point ,

thank you and thank you ALL for your comments and opinions. they are appreciated

 

[mtmuley]

With all due respect Europe, I avoid sugar coating killing animals as harvesting. No matter the audience. mtmuley

 

[TheBenHoyle]

There are so many good responses here. While I have never had an anti-hunter confront me, I am constantly meeting non-hunters who are fascinated by the concept. They usually have a lot of misconceptions about hunting and I talk freely with them about the realities of hunting in general and my experiences specifically. But I try to walk a fine line between talking so much that I bore them and giving them enough of an overview that they can be educated.

As for how I feel, I would agree that it depends on the species and the type of hunt. There is always a swell of joy and pride when you are successful, but that is usually tempered a little bit by the reality of the next steps in the process. I harvested my first deer this year and I had trouble sleeping that night, partly because I set myself the task skinning and butchering it myself the next day and I had a lot of anxiety about whether I could do it right. But also the reality that I had taken that life finally began to sink in and I had to process those emotions as well. Ultimately I found that I could process them and I doubt I will be as troubled next season if I am fortunate enough to harvest a deer.

I have a friend who was considering deer hunting but had expressed doubts about being able to handle the reality of harvesting a deer. I spoke with him afterwards and told him that unless he could convince himself that he could handle it beforehand, he probably shouldn't set himself up with a situation where he had to figure it out afterwards. Sort of an ask questions first, shoot last strategy. HIs main hang up is that he raises goats and they are like his pets and to him, the deer are just big lovable goats. But he can raise chickens and turkeys and slaughter them himself with no problem.

But one thing I find interesting is the relatively open acceptance of fishing as a sport in the same places where hunting would be considered heretical. I live in a Chicago suburb and there is extensive huntable/fishable habitat in the forest preserves. While fishing is encouraged, even to the point of spending money stocking the rivers and lakes. Hunting is not allowed. We are even told to live with coyotes who have been known to attack people out walking small dogs. Heaven forbid anyone talk about hunting the abundant raccoons, deer, skunks, etc. It is a very strange dichotomy and it makes me sad for a society that won't see life and death for the natural processes they are. Let alone their own part in the life and death cycles of the food they consume.

 

[Europe]

With all due respect Europe, I avoid sugar coating killing animals as harvesting. No matter the audience. mtmuley

and I respect your opinion as well as your contribution to the thread, it is appreciated. Thank you

my grandfather and father also used the word "kill", as did my grandmother when she would tell me to go kill a rooster for dinner. My husband didn't use the word as much, but used shot, as well as other hunting words. I actually picked up the word "harvest" when visiting and hunting in Canada and I liked it, so started using it even before PETA turned up the volume .

thebenhoyle---another excellent post and point. Especially about fishing and as others have mentioned even bird hunting doesn't seem to give one "pause"--myself included. You also made me smile when you mentioned domestic animals, as my dad would never let us name animals on the farm, not even chickens lol

I also wanted to mention anxiety and even fear ( as another feeling ) when hunting the dangerous 7 in Africa and then the overwhelming relief. It also never quite felt the same there even when hunting plains game , in fact it was a good feeling to see so many people so happy to have the meat.

Also--mtmuley--this is kind of funny and until your post I forgot about it. When I downed one of the dangerous 7, I would say thank god I "killed" him before he "killed" me. But when I was plains game hunting I went back to saying "harvest"

 

[mtmuley]

Must be my upbringing around livestock. Killing animals was part of life besides the killing while we hunted. mtmuley