Hard to tell the difference between SFW and RMEF these days.

[BuzzH]

I thought the elk shoulder seasons were a joke from day one, and the fact that the FWP even implemented them, in spite of the almost unanimous disapproval of them, is mind numbing.

I think the pickle that the RMEF now finds themselves in, is that for many within the membership, shoulder seasons are their only hope to kill an elk in Montana anymore. Really, IMO, the RMEF is taking heat over what is 100% the fault of the MFWP, they implemented the shoulder seasons, not the RMEF. The MFWP also fast tracked the process and opened up shoulder seasons in wayyyyy more units than they were supposed to. What ever happened to the "lets try it, do some analysis and see if it works in a couple units"...yeah, that didn't happen. It was, "hey we got the green light, lets floor it while the gettin' is good". Next thing you know 40+units had shoulder seasons and elk are being hunted for 6 months. Even people like me, that have been highly critical of the MFWP for a number of years, didn't think they would be that brash with the crap they've pulled with shoulder seasons.

I would also bet that if you polled the average elk hunter these days in Montana, compared to back when shoulder seasons were first talked about, I bet you find a lot more elk hunters are pretty supportive of them now.

Montana's lack of proper elk management has put a lot of good people at odds over one another...thank you MFWP, nice work, idiots.

 

[tjones]

I agree Buzz. But RMEF has ignored the shoulder season issue choosing to beat the more popular anti wolf drum. Plenty of groups are voicing concern about shoulder seasons, RMEF isn’t one of them.


My guess is they figured it’s an easier to understand issue for
members and appeals to their masses.

Also agree RMEF probably finds their members do support the shoulder seasons as a way for them to fill their tag, all the while hollering for a more liberal wolf season. As if 6 months and 5 tags isn’t enough. I hear soon to be 10 tags and cheaper. Most don’t fill one yet seem to think 10 wolf tags will reduce numbers.


Also like SFW the wolf is a cash cow. RMEF speaking up against a 6 month elk season driven by an outdated EMP and BS objective numbers—-not so much.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree Buzz. But RMEF has ignored the shoulder season issue choosing to beat the more popular anti wolf drum. Plenty of groups are voicing concern about shoulder seasons, RMEF isn’t one of them.


My guess is they figured it’s an easier to understand issue for
members and appeals to their masses.

Also agree RMEF probably finds their members do support the shoulder seasons as a way for them to fill their tag, all the while hollering for a more liberal wolf season. As if 6 months and 5 tags isn’t enough. I hear soon to be 10 tags and cheaper. Most don’t fill one yet seem to think 10 wolf tags will reduce numbers.


Also like SFW the wolf is a cash cow. RMEF speaking up against a 6 month elk season driven by an outdated EMP and BS objective numbers—-not so much.

I also agree, raising wolf tag numbers and selling them for half price is putting lipstick on a pig.

Not something I'd fall on a sword over either way...

I think that many RMEF members are aware that the EMP has to be addressed and is outdated and would like to reopen it.

Honestly, elk management in Montana is a damn mess, and I'm hoping that the right people can somehow get together to get the train back on track, its the only option left.

 

[beginnerhunter]

People are less picky about what church they attend. You're not going to find a single organization that reflects and advocates 100% what you believe.

 

[MTGomer]

What has changed on this form. Six months ago, if I said something critical of our RMEF...
Critical is probably the wrong word.

Six months ago, if a person simply asked where RMEF is on this, the tone on the page was much different.

Agree or disagree, I think being able to talk about it is good.

In another six months maybe we'll be ready to admit that the Mormon church is the driving force of land transfer. Well, we probably won’t be.
Baby steps.

 

[SAJ-99]

Every organization has a bias, mostly driven by the people who pay their salary. It's the old business adage of "Know your customer". RMEF is largely made up of hunters who lean anti-wolf. The title of the article reflects that view slightly, but it could have been much worse. They are simply feeding their customer the food they want.
Probably a good life lesson to remember, regardless of topic, everyone has an angle. It is usually driven by money. It doesn't always mean their intentions are insincere or devious. Reasonable people can disagree on most things.

The problem with state management that I have always worried about is that more you localize decisions, the higher the chance of "corruption". A single group or individual in a state has a far louder voice with state legislature than they do with federal representatives. This is why I think the best solution is state management within federal guidelines. I know it is worth about $0.02.

 

[Sytes]

I agree with you @MTGomer and recall your thread and disappointment w/ RMEF and I also recall my opposing view towards your critique of RMEF, along with sharing RMEF's public statements of opposition towards the trend of FWP's shoulder season vs it's (FWP's) original intent for shoulder season.

I believe shoulder seasons are off topic from the thread though as with other threads, they take their route regardless.

With respect to MT Elk shoulder seasons... They are crap. They've been crap and only stink further as public land enters the scene for this further abused program.

Regarding RMEF and MT elk shoulder season, I'm pretty darn disappointed they've not taken a strong public stance, rather playing the fence on this topic. I'm an avid RMEF donor, member, and volunteer. Their past position on this topic has been good from my perspective though the current trend has gone the other direction, or so it appears.
It was a public opposition towards this craptacular loss of elk, then turned almost neutral with elk network sharing the link to express opinions on the topic (w/o RMEF expressed opposition nor support) to this year for 2020, I don't believe I've seen anything on the topic.

RMEF is the leader for opening public land, the leader for enhanced elk opportunities, opening elk to habitats once roamed, working with all points of roles to see conservation expand to new eyes, and yes, for myself pushing support for State management of wolves in the UP area and opposing forced reintroduction in Colorado.

A fantastic organization that has slipped on a major component for their leading cause, elk... Shoulder seasons specifically.

 

[Irrelevant]

A fantastic organization that has slipped on a major component for their leading cause, elk... Shoulder seasons specifically.

I 100% agree. I recently contacted RMEF foundation to remind them that the "E" stands for "Elk". Way too much of their media output is geared towards things only tangentially related to elk, but not actually elk. I want to support an organization that advocates for what's best for elk first and foremost.

 

[Gerald Martin]

All my snarky comments and thread hijacking aside, I think it’s important for any organization to stick to their core mission and not get entangled in every issue that is tangentially related to their objectives.

In the grand scheme of things, wolves are coming to CO whether it’s by natural expansion of their range or by reintroduction. In fifteen years, how they got there is going to be a moot point.

In regards to shoulder seasons.... I hate them and would eliminate them today if I could. However, this struggle over management highlights the conflict between the ag community that is bearing the burden of feeding elk at the expense of their business vs a hunting public growing increasingly frustrated with management that does nothing to solve rancher’s problems and is reducing hunters’ access to elk on public/accessible lands.

This is a Montana problem and until Montana hunters are organized enough to effectively lobby for our interests we can expect to see the interests of the Ag community advanced over ours.

The sad thing is that our interests don’t have to be diametrically opposed if a FWP would use the tools they currently have and continue to find new solutions.

If and when CO figures out wolves and MT figures out shoulder seasons the elk are going to need space to live and hunters are going continue to need access. Habitat conservation and access are the number one priority for elk conservation.

All rhetoric and criticism aside, no other organization comes close to what the RMEF has accomplished for elk and elk hunters.

 

[hossblur]

Tjones.

You think I go after BHA? Feel free to look around on my thoughts on $fw.

Including me chastising Fin for attending their annual glad hand and screw job on Utah hunters convention(expo).

I live here. I know a bunch of their boots on the ground, as well as leadership.

$fw is a one of a kind. It's the biggest cancer in hunting that has ever stuck it's head out of the ground. It's bastardized the North American Model. It's a special interest group that bilks the State of Utah out of millions of dollars yearly to line it's pockets, and buy political favor to keep itself in power. Our Wildlife board is run by $fw members. Our RACS are as well. They are akin to the Mafia in Las Vegas in the 60's and 70's. They run the show. In fact they elect our Senators(Romney).

Could I be more clear?

Your blind, dumb, and deaf if you think $fw and RMEF are even in the same universe. It's one of the dumber comparisons I've read.


Same challenge I issue everywhere. You can't bad mouth $fw and show up in SLC in 2 weeks st their expo.

Your presence is counted. As is your money. It's a huge PR banner for how much sportsmen support the $fw model. $7million plus raised, nearly 60,000 participants. That speaks pretty loud to a governor and legislature when $fw (BGF) come glad handing for Utah's wolf forcefield.

Send your money instead to RMEF. Or BHA.

 

[tjones]

Easy there big fella. I'm not the OP. I have been at this wolf/elk issue for a long time probably been a member of RMEF longer than anyone on this forum. Just because I'm a member does not mean I will follow everything they do blindly. Nor will I agree with everything they do. I'm also not afraid to speak up when I don't agree with them on an issse. I'm also a life member of BHA.


I also very familar with SFW and Big Game Forever, know all about them since their inception. You are confused big time on your post. I would suggest you go back and read again. I have never been to SFW's deal in Utah and never will.

Reread and understand the the original post and things should be clearer for you. Or maybe not.

And its "you're"

 

[Irrelevant]

no other organization comes close to what the RMEF has accomplished for elk and elk hunters.

I think one could make a pretty strong case for TNC.

 

[hossblur]

Easy there big fella. I'm not the OP. I have been at this wolf/elk issue for a long time probably been a member of RMEF longer than anyone on this forum. Just because I'm a member does not mean I will follow everything they do blindly. Nor will I agree with everything they do. I'm also not afraid to speak up when I don't agree with them on an issse. I'm also a life member of BHA.


I also very familar with SFW and Big Game Forever, know all about them since their inception. You are confused big time on your post. I would suggest you go back and read again. I have never been to SFW's deal in Utah and never will.

Reread and understand the the original post and things should be clearer for you. Or maybe not.

And its "you're"

Sorry professor. I'll check my auto correct more clearly. I need not reread anything.

It was a ludacris post by someone who hasnt the foggiest idea what $fw is, what it does, or where it's passions lie.

RMEF has actual concerns on the issue.

$fw/BGF only concerns are $$$ and political power. In that order. You need only know the history of DON PEAY and the wolf issue to know how asinine comparing $fw and RMEF on wolves is.