Gun Owners Don't Vote

[Forkyfinder]

Did you read the post from Flynarrow?
The solution is eventually going to be some regulation of high capacity mags and AR type weapons which are the most often used in mass shootings. Yes there are already a bazillion of them out there but something needs to change.
Nobody is calling for mass confiscation of any weapons. Perhaps a permit like the kind needed to own a fully automatic machine gun where they have to pay a yearly tax. I know this would weed out a lot of yahoos who have no business owning a firearm of any kind.
But anytime someone even mentions ANY type of gun legislation people lose their $hite.

To legally own a machine gun, you first have to apply for approval from the federal government. After purchasing the gun, you must fill out an ATF Form 4 application and wait for approval before taking possession of the firearm. The FBI conducts a thorough background check using fingerprints and a photograph required with your application, which could take 9 to 12 months to process. The gun will need to stay in possession of the previous owner until the process is complete.

In addition, you will need to pay a $200 “NFA tax stamp” for each weapon transaction. If approved, you will receive your paperwork in the mail, including a permit with the listed lawful possessor of the firearm. Only then can you take the machine gun home and possess it legally.

Nope. Handguns are used more.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2023 | Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

Then to your other points - the ATF is speeding that process along.

So continue with the status quo

If the solution is an ineffective reduction of rights - absolutely.

Nope.

Status quo is expecting other people to fix problems.

Putting regulations on people will not stop bad behavior.

We as society have to stop the bad behavior.

Legislation of Ar15s isn't going to stop they crazy guy who can pass all background checks from snapping one day.

Some other a holes i know used a plane. Some other one used diesel fuel and fertilizer. Others have used a car. Or a pressure cooker. None of those are going away.

 

[406dn]

So is the solution to mass shootings in America continuing to do nothing?

Don't forget " thoughts and prayers".

 

[Forkyfinder]

Don't forget " thoughts and prayers".

Doing something that will do nothing is not superior to doing nothing.

 

[406dn]

Doing something that will do nothing is not superior to doing nothing.

I was being a little bit...no, quite a bit sarcastic.

 

[Elky Welky]

Thanks for the reminder that primary ballots are due today in MT.

 

[406dn]

Regarding voter apathy, extreme political candidates, etc, I think a couple of things would help, over time.

Primaries especially closed primaries select for the most extreme candidate running, in both parties. To fix that, I think California's jungle primary is a partial solution. Every candidate from every party is on the same ballot. The top two advance to the general election. Since California leans pretty hard left, it is often two Democrats advancing, fairly often. That still gives a right leaning voter some power to put the more moderate Democrat into office.

I also think ranked choice voting would make it more likely to produce more moderate winners. It is a Rube Goldberg device of sorts, but so is the Electoral College. When Don Young died in office and Alaska held a special election there were two Republicans and one Democrat of the ballot. The two GOP candidates garnered more total first choice votes. However when the GOP candidate with fewer first choice votes had their second choice vote counted, it tipped the election to the Democrat. Extreme candidates will not be the second choice for many voters.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Nope. Handguns are used more.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2023 | Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

Then to your other points - the ATF is speeding that process along.

If the solution is an ineffective reduction of rights - absolutely.

Some other a holes i know used a plane. Some other one used diesel fuel and fertilizer. Others have used a car. Or a pressure cooker. None of those are going away.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I'm done with this conversation. carry on.

The data also shows that shootings involving rifles took the most lives. Semi-automatic assault weapons have been used in the deadliest shootings on record — including Las Vegas (2017), Orlando (2016), Sutherland Springs (2017), Sandy Hook (2012), and Uvalde (2022), which is why the weapons are overrepresented in media reports. The perpetrator of a May 2022 mass shooting at a Buffalo, New York, supermarket who killed 10 Black people wrote in an online journal before the attack that he chose a semiautomatic rifle because it’s “very deadly.”

Another database, Gun Violence Archive, tracks shootings in near-real time through news clips and police reports. Over the last decade, 217 mass gun murders — defined as four or more people killed in a single incident — have been perpetrated with handguns, according to GVA, while 38 mass gun murders have been perpetrated with semiautomatic rifles or their variants.

 

[BrentD]

Nope. Handguns are used more.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2023 | Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

Then to your other points - the ATF is speeding that process along.

If the solution is an ineffective reduction of rights - absolutely.

Some other a holes i know used a plane. Some other one used diesel fuel and fertilizer. Others have used a car. Or a pressure cooker. None of those are going away.

This is a rather meaningless argument, of course. I do not understand why anyone would think it somehow justifies any stance, pro or con with respect to private ownership of firearms.

 

[BrentD]

Regarding voter apathy, extreme political candidates, etc, I think a couple of things would help, over time.

Primaries especially closed primaries select for the most extreme candidate running, in both parties. To fix that, I think California's jungle primary is a partial solution. Every candidate from every party is on the same ballot. The top two advance to the general election. Since California leans pretty hard left, it is often two Democrats advancing, fairly often. That still gives a right leaning voter some power to put the more moderate Democrat into office.

I also think ranked choice voting would make it more likely to produce more moderate winners. It is a Rube Goldberg device of sorts, but so is the Electoral College. When Don Young died in office and Alaska held a special election there were two Republicans and one Democrat of the ballot. The two GOP candidates garnered more total first choice votes. However when the GOP candidate with fewer first choice votes had their second choice vote counted, it tipped the election to the Democrat. Extreme candidates will not be the second choice for many voters.

Depending on what you do with the ranks I will disagree or agree.

Google or wiki Condorcet voting, for instance.

 

[4ohSick]

Some other a holes i know used a plane.

Flying sure got a lot more tedious since 9/11 and we don't need to go into the rabbit hole of whether the wild inconvenience of removing our shoes actually makes us safer, but in my mind a corollary to what we go through flying with "gun control" would be what I'd be looking for. I believe it's possible to improve safeguards while adding a relatively minor level of inconvenience to ownership of certain types of weapons and accessories without actually restricting that right.

My proposal (4ohSick2028) is every semiautomatic centerfire firearm with a detachable box magazine falls under NFA, funding and rules for processing NFA approvals are improved so wait times with a clean record are less than a week, and tax stamp fees are gone or reduced to a nominal amount (for current NFA items and the new ones). Include social media history in FBI background check (not sure if it is, but seems like a no-brainer). People can still buy hunting rifles, shotguns, home defense weapons (realistically a shotgun is probably the best bet) and revolvers with the standard NICS background checks. Would it stop all the psychos? No. Would it stop some? Almost certainly.

 

[Bonasababy]

I recall some serious griping about the Don Young replacement result and I see it used occasionally against ranked choice or similar systems, but I think it can still be noted that had one of the republicans appeared to be more moderate they would have won easily. Most of the time voters or not as far from the middle as the people parties choose.

 

[bucdoego]

Vote. That was the point of my posting this topic.

Share your ideas on potential changes to gun rights and regs - all good.

But, in the end - vote.

 

[Elky Welky]

Vote. That was the point of my posting this topic.

Share your ideas on potential changes to gun rights and regs - all good.

But, in the end - vote.

Amen. It's interesting to me how other states have to consider guns when voting on hunting issues. Guns and hunting are not the same issue in Montana. Neither of the major parties are going to attempt to touch our guns here; it's political suicide and they know it. One party wants to tie guns to hunting so they can bring in that voting bloc, but again, hunting and guns are pretty much separate entities in MT. Sadly, there is a large part of the voting bloc that believes one party is going to take their guns (which certainly could be true at a national level), so they sometimes vote against their self interest when it actually comes to hunting here.

So not only would I encourage folks to vote, but I'd also encourage folks to vote on the issues, not the national party line.

Alas, a guy can dream, right?

 

[Nick87]

It's funny how different ways people are killed or commit suicide triggers some but not others and vice versa.