Grand Mesa (Unit 42 and others) going draw only

[grasshopper]

i'm referring to your claims on NR v R hunter numbers and OTC licensing sales data. let's see it statewide, unit by unit, not just grand mesa.

let's see the cora request. i'm genuinely interested. i just don't want to spend the money on it cause god knows how long it will take them to pull together .csv of 15-20 years of licensing data.

i know there are units of which a majority of hunters are NR. that's not okay. i'm not okay with that.

I don't agree that when you look at hunter numbers as a whole, the majority of hunters are NRs. there are shit ton of people in this state and a shit ton who like to hunt. and archery has gotten damn more popular in the last decade.

i maintain that crowding is by and large resident hunter problem with some unit specific exceptions. but of course the data may not support that, so let's see the data. you wanna go halfsies on a what i assume will be a 50 dollar cora request let's do it.

we're still not in total disagreement. if otc is going away the NR's should lose it first. but i betcha the crowding overall would not get much better.

some day bowhunters are going to have to own up the fact that they are affecting the resource though.

I believe Brandons CORA data includes 2022. His includes list B cow tag data which CPW likes to include to skew the data.
This is the data Lane Walter pulled.

I can give you data from 10 years ago up until the BGSS go round, but what's the point? I have the data, but not the time.

If the statewide goal is 306,000 elk and we have 309,000 elk, shouldn't every hunter be able to have an impact on the resource? I thought the idea was to manage and kill game? Did they not talk about that at your pint night?

 

[TOGIE]

I believe Brandons CORA data includes 2022. His includes list B cow tag data which CPW likes to include to skew the data.
This is the data Lane Walter pulled.

I can give you data from 10 years ago up until the BGSS go round, but what's the point? I have the data, but not the time.

If the statewide goal is 306,000 elk and we have 309,000 elk, shouldn't every hunter be able to have an impact on the resource? I thought the idea was to manage and kill game? Did they not talk about that at your pint night?

you like to spend time focusing on the dynamics of one unit or DAU and use statewide elk numbers to justify everything else you want to push for?

if there was one cow and one bull elk left in the entire eagle valley would you justify their death by arrow or bullet because the state as a whole is over objective?

or is the death by bullet not morally righteous enough to be counted by you?

 

[grasshopper]

Here is some data from Brandon

 

[MikaelMc]

Here is some data from Brandon

Thank you for posting that, does a perfect job illustrating the argument.

 

[grasshopper]

you like to spend time focusing on the dynamics of one unit or DAU and use statewide elk numbers to justify everything else you want to push for?

if there was one cow and one bull elk left in the entire eagle valley would you justify their death by arrow or bullet because the state as a whole is over objective?

or is the death by bullet not morally righteous enough to be counted by you?

The E-16 herd has gone from 4600 elk to a projected 8600 this coming year. I have the spreadsheets from then CPW senior Biologist Brad Petch detailing maybe a couple decades of quotas and harvest. We manage by DAU's, not drainages.

You can believe the CNN/TRCP/BHA/KRW narrative being pushed about trails, recreation, and calves dieing because they got moved, or look at data and what happened when they quit selling way to may cow tags.

I'm done, please get real data, and make decisions based on facta. If people did that, we wouldn't be introducing wolves or limiting bowhunters. The sky might be falling, but we have 309,000 elk right now.

 

[TOGIE]

The E-16 herd has gone from 4600 elk to a projected 8600 this coming year. I have the spreadsheets from then CPW senior Biologist Brad Petch detailing maybe a couple decades of quotas and harvest. We manage by DAU's, not drainages.

You can believe the CNN/TRCP/BHA/KRW narrative being pushed about trails, recreation, and calves dieing because they got moved, or look at data and what happened when they quit selling way to may cow tags.

I'm done, please get real data, and make decisions based on facta. If people did that, we wouldn't be introducing wolves or limiting bowhunters. The sky might be falling, but we have 309,000 elk right now.

so you would shoot them?

 

[grasshopper]

Thank you for posting that, does a perfect job illustrating the argument.

That data can be somewhat deceiving though because over the years OTC archery continues to be limited, We lost the whole SW region, E-16, 80/81, and now grand mesa units. 80/81 after the draw was still 65% nonresident. When the SW went limited, I think the quota was 6,000 limited archery tags, and then they cut that in half the next year. Adding those numbers to this data, is more then I have time for.


When a unit goes limited, and a hunter has points, it is a what to do dilemma, and second choice has no res/NR split.
It would be great of CPW would share all the data, the impact throuugh the years, what happens with limitations and more - but I doubt they care.

 

[grasshopper]

so you would shoot them?

I think you have a typo on your handle, it should be tokie.

 

[Oak]

That data can be somewhat deceiving though because over the years OTC archery continues to be limited, We lost the whole SW region, E-16, 80/81, and now grand mesa units. 80/81 after the draw was still 65% nonresident. When the SW went limited, I think the quota was 6,000 limited archery tags, and then they cut that in half the next year. Adding those numbers to this data, is more then I have time for.

That’s a really good point.

 

[TOGIE]

That data can be somewhat deceiving though because over the years OTC archery continues to be limited, We lost the whole SW region, E-16, 80/81, and now grand mesa units. 80/81 after the draw was still 65% nonresident. When the SW went limited, I think the quota was 6,000 limited archery tags, and then they cut that in half the next year. Adding those numbers to this data, is more then I have time for.

but that should prove that residents aren't losing opportunity under the limited structure. residents didn't want the tags anyway so the NRs gobbled them up.

if otc archery went full limited statewide based on 2021 otc sales numbers that would mean there are essentially 6700 resident licenses that go unsold and back to NRs anyway.

so, serious question, is it just the total number of hunters that's bothersome during archery? or is it that they are specifically NR hunters? because i notice there that total otc sales have remained pretty steady since 2009 while the split between NR/R has shifted. (but as you say, maybe we need to think about that more if we added in the effect of limited daus)

or is the problem opportunity? because it seems resident archery hunters are not losing opportunity if they're not utilizing all the limited tags available to them when a dau goes limited.

serious questions.