Game farms, again

[Tom]

You guys think everything falls from the sky. We have a lot of hogs here, they don't wipe out wildlife populations. We have laws to prevent the spread of disease. You just work at it. Like say, some sick guy comes to Texas from Montana or Colorado with a cold. We don't wipe out all visitors, we don't think we'll all get a cold and die, we don't charge just hunters to treat the cold, we just treat the colds and try to prevent their spread and there is a huge commercial/medical establishment paid for by many for that.

Is it legal to shoot flying hogs there Oak? You should work to make it so if that's how they got there. If not, find out how they got there and make sure they are tested or not transported. The article talked about the irradication program for the disease, its not mine, its mentioned in the article, implement that, like they say they are doing. Make it illegal for the guy to release them, if its not already, make the penalties match the risk, recover the costs from those who generate them, etc.

Don't just say, shoot them all out of the sky, before they fall on us.

 

[The Hedgehog]

What happens in Texas should stay in Texas.

 

[mtmiller]

Tom, do those feral hogs follow those disease laws?

I think saying feral hogs don't impact wildlife populations is rather naive.

http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/journal/fall2007/Ditchkoff_149.pdf

 

[Tom]

mtmiller, I said they don't wipe out wildlife populations, not that they don't impact them, you're the one who brought up that naive thought.

I recommend one of thos AA12 shotguns with those little missile bullets that go to 175 yards. You could knock a sick hog out of the sky with that probably.

 

[Oak]

If not, find out how they got there and make sure they are tested or not transported. The article talked about the irradication program for the disease, its not mine, its mentioned in the article, implement that, like they say they are doing. Make it illegal for the guy to release them, if its not already, make the penalties match the risk, recover the costs from those who generate them, etc.

Don't just say, shoot them all out of the sky, before they fall on us.

Tom, the eradication program mentioned in the article was for captive hogs, not feral hogs. How would you propose to eradicate disease in the feral hog population in Texas? How many millions of feral hogs does your state have now?

Testing for disease is already a requirement. But the game farmer just didn't give a shit and did it anyway. I'm saying that the penalty for not giving a shit should be loss of his game farming license. Why is that unreasonable to you? Do you think a guy that has been doing this long enough that he was "grandfathered" in when the ban took place just made an honest mistake? How do you propose regulation of not giving a shit if you don't support yanking licenses?

 

[Tom]

I went back to reread the article to see if there was justification for what you seem to desire.

"The quarantine order follows the Nov. 17 seizure by state wildlife and agriculture officials of a livestock trailer containing 20 exotic sheep and 16 feral hogs as it was about to enter the Little Creek Ranch in Collbran. The exotic hogs are illegal to transport in Colorado and the driver did not possess required permits for importation or transportation of any of the animals."

Who got the hogs tested on the trailer? If it was the game rancher, then he's the hero, not the villian. Who was driving the livestock trailer? It could have been a door to door hog salesman and the game rancher saw that the hogs were sick with psueorabies, whatever that is. Why did you conclude it was the game ranch owner at guilt and why did you conclude he didn't give a shit. It might have been him who called the people to come check the hogs, since they looked sick. You should thank your lucky stars that game rancher was there and they got those hogs while they were on the livestock trailer. Where did those hogs come from that were on that livestock trailer, it didn't say? That's the place to implement the irradication program, start with that livestock trailer full of hogs, then go to where they came from. It says the agencies are cooperating with each other and investigating, so I hope they solve the problem.

What is psuedorabies anyway? Some rare thing, it sounds like, it affects animals it says. Like if a hog hunter saw a frothing mouth hog (is it like rabies that way?), what should he do? I'd likely kill it and call some biologist to find out what to do if I ever saw that.

I don't hear about hog diseases here in Texas much, they seem to be under control, maybe that's why we have millions of hogs. They are so healthy, the joke goes, in a litter of 6, 8 of them will survive.

 

[Oak]

You're right Tom. The game farmer was likely the hero. You still haven't told me how you propose to eradicate pseudorabies from the 3 million feral hogs in Texas.

I know that you know how to research these things if you really want to.

Pseudorabies in Texas

Pseudorabies kills hunting dogs

 

[guppie9]

Who was driving the livestock trailer? It could have been a door to door hog salesman

Holy shit....that has to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while. Do they have a lot of those down there in Texas?? I don't usually pick on you Tom, but come on. I highly doubt that the rancher was the one who called this thing in considering:

the exotic hogs are illegal to transport in Colorado and the driver did not possess required permits for importation or transportation of any of the animals.

Considering the fact that the trailer was seized THAN quarantined, I think it is safe to assume the the "rancher" was doing something wrong.

But hey, I could be wrong.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Holy shit....that has to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while. Do they have a lot of those down there in Texas?? I don't usually pick on you Tom, but come on. I

But hey, I could be wrong.

When I saw his door-to-door salesman, I thought of Mr. Haney on GreenAcres

I could see Tom doing business with a door to door used hog salesman...

 

[Oak]

Ranch on W. Slope cut off over ill stock

Hogs with pseudorabies never interacted with other animals, but the state calls a quarantine as a precaution.
By Christopher N. Osher
The Denver Post
Updated: 11/29/2008

State authorities have placed a Mesa County ranch under quarantine after discovering livestock had a serious and contagious disease that posed a threat to other livestock and wildlife.

Thursday's quarantine follows the Nov. 17 seizure by state wildlife and agriculture officials of a livestock trailer containing 20 exotic sheep and 16 feral hogs. The driver of the trailer, which was headed to the Little Creek Ranch, did not possess required permits. It is illegal to transport that type of hog in the trailer, officials said.

Tests revealed that 14 of the hogs were carrying pseudo rabies, a contagious viral disease that poses threats to livestock, wildlife and pets.
Keith Roehr, the assistant state veterinarian, said authorities intervened before the infected animals could pose a threat to other animals.

"We were able to move them to a location where they didn't have any exposure to wildlife or domestic swine," Roehr said in an interview. "We are now able to identify and contain and prevent further exposure."

He said authorities will conduct further testing on animals at the Little Creek Ranch. The quarantine bars movement in or out of that ranch, he said. He said the incident marked the first discovery of pseudo rabies in feral hogs in Colorado.

The quarantine order states that recent inspections of the ranch "found a number of regulatory deficiencies" and problems with fencing around the ranch, including numerous holes under the fencing.

The Little Creek Ranch, which has a wild-boar-hunting operation, is licensed by the state as a commercial wildlife park. The ranch existed before state regulations banning the importation or possession of wild boar and feral hogs, and it was "grandfathered in" to allow it to have a limited number of wild boar on the property. Still, the ranch must comply with strict animal-health and fencing requirements.
Officials at the Colorado Division of Wildlife and the Colorado Department of Agriculture quarantined the ranch.

 

[Oak]

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. — Officers with the Colorado Division of Wildlife and the Colorado Department of Agriculture plan to enter the Little Creek Ranch this week to test animals for pseudorabies, an infectious disease for both wildlife and livestock.

Officers plan to test the blood of all animals on the ranch, a fenced, commercial hunting ranch at 1170 59 9/10 Road, outside Collbran.

Friday, the state agencies ordered the commercial ranch to quarantine all its animals.

“The ranch owner is being cooperative,” said Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton. “He’s agreed to let us in and he’s trying to round them up.”

The owner, Alan Baier was unavailable to comment.

Loopnet.com, an online commercial real estate listing service, showed the 760.8-acre property being for sale, as of Nov. 3. A sale price was not listed, but the Web posting offered “lucrative mineral rights half to buyer with sale,” along with “Oil and gas boom in full swing in the area,” and “thousands of acres of incredible hunting.”

The Little Creek Ranch’s Web site — coloradowildelk.com — shows hunts available for big game animals such as deer, elk, bear, antelope and more. Its exotic list of animals available to hunt there includes fallow deer, ibex, Texas dall ram, Corsican ram, hogzilla, wild Russian boar and others.

The order prohibits Baier from removing animal, dead or alive, from the property.

The quarantine order also requires Baier to fix his fence.

The Division of Wildlife gave Baier a three-page list of 84 individual areas where fencing needs to be fixed.

“There are very strict requirements regarding fencing, animal health and the number of animals that particular ranch is allowed to have,” Hampton said. “We’re looking into if this situation involves any violations of those requirements.”

Hampton said the Division released the information to alert neighboring landowners and ranchers in the area to watch for pseudorabies.

On Nov. 17, the state seized a livestock trailer containing 20 exotic sheep and 16 feral hogs as it prepared to enter the ranch.

“The exotic hogs are illegal to transport in Colorado, and the driver did not possess required permits for importation or transportation of any of the animals,” Hampton said in a news release.

Fourteen of the 16 hogs tested positive for pseudorabies. All of the seized animals are being held by the state.

Pseudorabies is a contagious viral disease that primarily affects pigs. However, the disease can also be a threat to other animals.

Feral hog populations concern state wildlife agencies across the country. Packs of these hogs can devastate wildlife habitat by rooting up areas of ground and destroying native vegetation, Hampton said.

Feral hogs have been killed by landowners and wildlife officers on the Grand Mesa near Collbran. Because the state considers feral hogs to be an invasive pest, the state allows people to kill them any time of year and without need of a hunting license.

 

[Tom]

Those hogs are diseased and they were loaded on that trailer somewhere and then brought to that ranch where they were seized. Where were they loaded on the trailer, where did they come from, that's the lead they need to follow?

Oak, Colorado has an irradication program for psuedorabies the article said. Its not been detected in the wild, so its apparently working fine. Do you think it is a problem? I"ll read your links when I get some time, thanks for posting them.

Why don't your newspaper people say where these hogs came from that have it and get there asap? I still think it might have been a hog salesman shister trying to sell his sick hogs to that ranch where they would be shot quick and he would not loose all his money and time he had invested in them. I hope they get with him and find out where the diseased hogs came from, that's my main concern. They probably got it from a rabbid coyote or something? I'll read your link later. Does Colorado try to manage rabies somehow or do they just let it spread? We've had rabies breakouts in coyotes here and they do massive spreading of food biskets with rabies medicine in them to stop the epidemic from spreading if they get one. I remember reading about one a few years back, maybe there is some info. on the web.

It sounds like the hogs are tearing up that guys fence. He may have to put cattle panels down into the ground to stop that and then lay wire out a few feet that would require the hogs to dig a big tunnel. Then, if you saw a tunnel starting on regular inspections you could put more cattle panel in it to stop it, maybe that would stop them. Many people with high fences and exotics in them here, almost put a bounty on the hogs that are inside. They want people to shoot the hogs, so the exotics don't get out. It requires a lot of work to maintain the fence when hogs are around.

"Because the state considers feral hogs to be an invasive pest, the state allows people to kill them any time of year and without need of a hunting license."

I think they should require people to have a hunting liscense to help cover the costs of manageing them in the wild, but I guess your state wants others to pay for that or wants everyone possible shooting them. It seems unlikely someone without a liscense would shoot one anyway I guess, so maybe its a moot point.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Tom - pseudorabies has nothing to do with rabies - it is variation of the herpes virus. I doubt that foaming of the mouth is a symptom.

You gotta admit - the idea of a door-to-door hog salesman is pretty funny!

 

[Oak]

I started a long-winded reply, but I'm not going to waste my time. I think you should have read the links before replying, and I think you should understand that there is a difference between feral hogs and domestic hogs. Maybe then you could figure out the answers to some of your questions.

 

[Tom]

I think you should understand the difference between guilty and not guilty, its basic in America. I'm under no obligation to answer your question, just because you ask it, especially if you don't answer mine.

I'll eventually get around to it, as I think its an interesting question for your worry that wild hogs may get psuedo rabies sometime, someday, somewhere in Colorado.

I don't think the travelling hog salesman is funny as he had a bunch of sick hogs and nobody seems to care where they came from. People seem to think getting the place where they were going is the thing to do and that is darn right stupid.

I'm sure those actually responsible for control of the hogs on the livestock trailer and their disease are investigating that. Maybe the news will pick up on it, maybe not.

If that rancher has fence problems, he needs to have some hog drives, put them on special, wipe them out, they will tear up a fence, no doubt. He and the state, will be ahead for it.

 

[Oak]

I don't recall asking you questions until you started talking about what you don't know about.

The quarantine order states that recent inspections of the ranch "found a number of regulatory deficiencies" and problems with fencing around the ranch, including numerous holes under the fencing.

The Division of Wildlife gave Baier a three-page list of 84 individual areas where fencing needs to be fixed.

I understand the difference between guilty and not guilty. Eighty four holes in the fence: guilty of not giving a shit.

See you're not listening again. You've got your big Keith Warren earplugs in, maybe? We didn't have wild hogs in CO until the extras from Texas came in and "grandfathered" game farmers started not giving a shit. Why should hunters pay to "manage" the agriculture industry's problem?

 

[Tom]

Where did those hogs on that livestock trailer come from? Who brought them to the ranch?

Hunters should pay to hunt, whether its a wild hog or a domestic hog, especially if you try to have hogs within a fence for hunters to shoot in your state. Those hogs will interact with the wildlife population, so there will be management issues shared between agricultural and wildlife managers. Agricultural people feed the wildlife bigtime.

Why should they do that? If I take your attitude. They ought to just wipe out any wildlife eating any of their crops, right? Why should they pay for the wildlife management problems of lack of habitat for the wildlife? Isn't it obvious there are management issues shared by agriculture and wildlife managers and users? It ought to be.

Its hard to listen to a bunch of whining about the rancher who had sick hogs about to enter his ranch when you don't even know where the hogs came from and who brought them to the ranch.

 

[Oak]

Ok, let's wait and see where the hogs came from. I'm betting on Texas, where 20% of the feral hog populations has pseudorabies.

 

[The Hedgehog]

feral hogs are like feral cats right? Who'd buy a hunting license to shoot a feral cat? Not I.

 

[Tom]

Greenhorn, you have a hunting liscense, plus, if you saw a hog where you hunt, you'd probably shoot it, right?

Ok, I read Oaks first link and learned some things, including this:

"pseudorabies, a regulatory flu-like swine disease not related to rabies" Those hogs had the flu? Is that a problem?

The answer to that may be in his second link.

"Pseudorabies has been present in this country the past 150 years and claims a small number of hunting dogs every year.
...

PRV is carried by wild hogs and is always present throughout Florida. The virus also has been reported in at least 10 other states. Moving hogs to new areas can spread the disease.

PRV is an extremely contagious herpes virus. Despite its name, PRV is not related to rabies, and it is not contagious to humans; however, other animals and pets, particularly dogs, are susceptible to infection.

“Only dogs that are directly exposed to feral swine or consume raw feral hog meat are at significant risk for pseudorabies,” Cunningham said."

If you let your dog eat some of the hog meat with the flu like virus, they might get the flu like disease and die.

Man, this is like the plague, eh? Its not a bad plague though, eh? Maybe Greenhorn won't give a shit and will just let the hog walk, if he sees it. Either way, tell mtmiller not to feed it to his dog, till he gets the hog inspected.